Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cyber Internet Services

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:{{la|1=Cyber Internet Services}} – (View AfDView log | edits since nomination)

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I don't see this company meeting SIGCOV or even NCORP. The article also seems pretty promotional and mostly relies on sources tied to the organization or its subsidiaries, like stormfiber.com, which is a brand of this company. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 15:55, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Pakistan-related deletion discussions. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 15:55, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Companies and Internet. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:30, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
• Delete Fails GNG and the cited sources are promotional. Lorstaking (talk) 11:50, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
• Keep This is one of the largest ISPs in Pakistan. The citations and text need to be improved but the organisation is notable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Isoceles-sai (talk • contribs) 12:40, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
• Isoceles-sai, This was ATA:WP:THISNUMBERISHUGE. Please provide coverage that meets SIRS and SIGCOV. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 15:21, 25 August 2024 (UTC)
• Delete: Per nom. Not notable with almost nil SIGCOV. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 16:45, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
• Comment I think it comes down to whether ProPakistani.pk and Dawn are reliable sources, since there is WP:SIGCOV in the articles already linked. They're not all promotional; some feature critical news. But I don't know enough to evaluate the reliability of those sources. Would be nice to have some commentary on the reliability of these sources. Dclemens1971 (talk) 20:16, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
• :Dawn is the top English language newspaper in Pakistan. Very reliable, highest quality journalism.
• :ProPakistani is a technology focused media, reliable with no issues with factual content, but prone to publishing promotional material, and press releases. Isoceles-sai (talk) 17:41, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: Following the comment above, a source review would be helpful.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:34, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

• Comment: Dawn is reliable per WP:NPPSG and there are quite a few Dawn articles that offer significant coverage of this company. ProPakistani.pk is listed as "no consensus" because there are concerns about undisclosed sponsored posts, so I wouldn't trust them for notability. Regardless, there is some coverage in other sources (ex: [https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/cybernet-suffers-outage-in-pakistan/][https://tribune.com.pk/story/1953039/pakistans-internet-infrastructure-get-96-tbs-boost-new-cable-system][https://www.brecorder.com/news/40211289][https://tribune.com.pk/story/1953039/pakistans-internet-infrastructure-get-96-tbs-boost-new-cable-system]) so I'm leaning towards a keep. C F A 💬 23:51, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
• :Thanks for the comment. In light of the reliability of Dawn and the sigcov in it, plus the sources identified by CFA, I'll !vote keep. Dclemens1971 (talk) 00:26, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
• ::{{ping|CFA|Dclemens1971|}} Are the keep votes based on Dawn's non-byline coverage currently cited in the article, which is itself derived from press releases? — Saqib (talk I contribs) 21:23, 30 August 2024 (UTC)
• :::Do you have this press release for us to compare? Dclemens1971 (talk) 01:04, 31 August 2024 (UTC)
• ::::Dclemens1971, Based on your comment, it seems like you're relying heavily on Dawn's coverage to justify keeping this article. There are three Dawn articles cited, but the coverage is questionable. For example, [https://www.dawn.com/news/1476691 this article] is clearly marked as "PR" under the image caption, indicating it's likely based on a press release. [https://www.dawn.com/news/1519863 This second news story] only briefly mentions the subject [Cyber Internet Services] in the context of an incident at StormFiber, a subsidiary of the subject making it routine coverage. And [https://www.dawn.com/news/1727236 the third article] offers just a trivial mention of the subject. None of these provide in-depth coverage of Cyber Internet Services itself. Similarly, the coverage provided by {{ping|CFA}} is also questionable. Why? Because the term “PR” is clearly mentioned under the image captions, suggesting it's likely based on press releases. The coverage in Business Recorder is confirmed to be press release-based as well, as indicated by the byline. Now the question is, since when did we start keeping articles based on press release coverage? — Saqib (talk I contribs) 12:21, 1 September 2024 (UTC)
• :::::Not exclusively basing my !vote on Dawn coverage but RS/N seems to support @CFA's view and CFA brought other sources that support notability under WP:NCORP. I note you have not supplied any press release that you assert (without evidence thus far) the Dawn articles are based on. Sourcing an image to a press release is extremely common even with reliable sources, which need to attribute their images and have no reason not to use images provided by companies. That is no indication that the article itself is based on a press release. Dclemens1971 (talk) 18:35, 2 September 2024 (UTC)
• ::::::Dclemens1971, Please check the tone of [https://www.dawn.com/news/1476691 these] [https://tribune.com.pk/story/1953039/pakistans-internet-infrastructure-get-96-tbs-boost-new-cable-system articles] - they’re clearly PROMO. We don’t always need evidence to show that a piece is based on a press release. I don’t have to add anything more on this. — Saqib (talk I contribs) 11:25, 4 September 2024 (UTC)
• ::::[https://www.dawn.com/news/1476691 This] referenced Dawn article seems to be based on, and quoting directly, [http://www.peacecable.net/News/Detail/16603 this] press release. I haven't checked the others, yet, but I suspect the same applies. The Dawn article doesn't link to the press release (bad form!) but other coverage does (see [https://www.techjuice.pk/this-new-submarine-cable-system-will-increase-pakistans-internet-capacity-to-96-tb-s/ here] for example, with them even directly stating as such when linking to it: {{tq|According to the press release issued by PEACE}}). So it seems {{u|Saqib}} is correct in his assessment. GhostOfNoMeme 23:53, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
• :::::The same indeed seems to apply for [https://tribune.com.pk/story/1953039/pakistans-internet-infrastructure-get-96-tbs-boost-new-cable-system this] Tribune article. It's again a promotional piece based on the same press release straight from the involved company. GhostOfNoMeme 23:57, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
• Keep per CFA and Dclemens1971 analysis. StormFiber is not a company or subsidiary - it is doing business as StormFiber for public internet connections. StormFiber coverage ([https://tribune.com.pk/story/1754694/stormfiber-expands-multan-even-taxes-bite], [https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/291271-company-launches-premium-internet-services], [https://tribune.com.pk/story/2369238/stormfiber-website-briefly-hacked], [https://www.nation.com.pk/23-Oct-2018/stormfiber-launched-in-quetta], [https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/16-Jul-2021/stormfiber-deploys-ipv6-across-its-network]) does count towards Cyber Internet (additional coverage: [https://www.dawn.com/news/57430/internet-service-inaugurated], [https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/459289-cybernet-to-build-submarine-cable]). At worst, redirect to Lakson Group per WP:ATD. 194.213.16.36 (talk) 19:36, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: Relisting as the reliability of the sources has been questioned. Also, the option of a Redirect has also been proposed. Participants coming into the discussion now, please check the sources brought up in this discussion, not just the ones appearing in the article now.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:56, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

{{ source assess table |

{{ source assess

| source = https://www.dawn.com/news/1476691

| ind = y

| ind_just = While Dawn is a Independent RS, but this is a no-byline piece, so we don't know the author. It looks like it's based on a press release

| rel = -

| rel_just = It’s a no-byline piece and seems based on a press release. If one check the tone because it reads just like one

| sig = n

| sig_just = It's routine news coverage with no in-depth details about the company itself

}}

{{ source assess

| source = https://www.dawn.com/news/1519863

| ind = y

| ind_just = While Dawn is a Independent RS, but this is a no-byline piece, so we don't know the author. It looks like it's based on a press release

| rel = -

| rel_just = It’s a no-byline piece, based on company's own press statement

| sig = n

| sig_just = It's routine news coverage with no in-depth details about the company itself

}}

{{ source assess

| source = https://www.dawn.com/news/1727236

| ind = y

| ind_just = While Dawn is a Independent RS, but this is a no-byline piece, so we don't know the author

| rel = ?

| rel_just = It’s a no-byline piece

| sig = n

| sig_just = It's routine news coverage with no in-depth details about the company itself

}}

{{ source assess

| source = https://tribune.com.pk/story/1953039/pakistans-internet-infrastructure-get-96-tbs-boost-new-cable-system

| ind = y

| ind_just = The ET is a RS, but this is a no-byline piece, so we don't know the author. It looks like it's based on a press release

| rel = -

| rel_just = It’s a no-byline piece and seems based on a press release. If one check the tone because it reads just like one

| sig = n

| sig_just = It's routine news coverage with no in-depth details about the company itself

}}

{{ source assess

| source = https://www.brecorder.com/news/40211289

| ind = -

| ind_just = While Business Recorder is an independent news source but this is clearly marked as press release

| rel = -

| rel_just = Since this is based on a press release, I'm unsure

| sig = -

| sig_just = I don't see in-depth details about the company itself

}}

}}

::It looks like this source table was put together by User:Saqib. Thank you for assembling it but please sign all comments and contributions to the discussion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:52, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

:I disagree with the assessments in this source table for reasons already noted above. Dclemens1971 (talk) 16:58, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

• Delete. After reviewing the references (as noted in my above replies with evidence), it's evident that the Dawn and Tribune articles are promotional pieces based on press releases. In addition, [https://propakistani.pk/2022/06/02/stormfiber-launches-its-ultra-fast-broadband-in-gujrat-abbottabad-and-okara/ the ProPakistani article] is literally marked "Press Release". I also concur with the source analysis above. Essentially no WP:SIGCOV. GhostOfNoMeme 00:26, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.