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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Raids inside the Soviet Union during the Soviet–Afghan War

:The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge‎__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ to Soviet–Afghan War. This could be closed as No consensus but there is strong enough opposition to this subject being a standalone article that I'm closing this as a Merge as an ATD. Liz Read! Talk! 06:18, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

=[[:Raids inside the Soviet Union during the Soviet–Afghan War]]=

{{AFD help}}

:{{la|1=Raids inside the Soviet Union during the Soviet–Afghan War}} – (View AfDView log | edits since nomination)

:({{Find sources AFD|title=Raids inside the Soviet Union during the Soviet–Afghan War}})

An unwarranted WP:SPLIT of the Soviet–Afghan War, clearly a Pov ridden article and glorification of measly notable Pakistani raids in Soviet Afghan. Garudam Talk! 00:49, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

:Its not a Split and these raids aren't "measley notable" in that it involved the forces of four different states infiltrating into the territory of a global superpower. Waleed (talk) 02:58, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

  • Keep: I think that the article is notable on its own. WP:SPLIT is justified for significant battles of the Soviet-Afghan war. Wikibear47 (talk) 17:38, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
  • :This could be merged at best. Otherwise, I don't see a reason why this article should exist in the mainspace when the parent article itself does not cover this topic or lacks sources, even if it does. Garudam Talk! 19:11, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Delete: pure violation of WP:SYNTH. The topic is not notable and the article itself appears to be pushing a POV. - Ratnahastin (talk) 02:18, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Keep The article has standalone notability of its own established through significant coverage and a necessary split from Soviet-Afghan war article. Muneebll (talk) 09:23, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
  • :The topic is not even notable for its parent article and lacks citations, clearly it does not pass GNG & SIGCOV. Garudam Talk! 14:55, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 01:38, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 02:31, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

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{{resize|91%|Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}
Relisting comment: Any more support for merge as ATD?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Benison (Beni · talk) 06:35, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

  • Merge with Soviet–Afghan War. Besides the reasons suggested above, there's not enough content to warrant a standalone article. 💥Casualty • Hop along. • 06:45, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
  • Delete: This does not qualify under Wikipedia guidelines for a standalone article. It could be argued if the "raids" ever occurred in Soviet Afghan or it is just a mere hoax, quoting from the Foreign involvement section:{{tq|MI6 directly remitted money into an account of Pakistani leader of Jamaat-e-Islami Qazi Hussain Ahmad who had close links with Hekmatyar & Massoud. MI6's aim was for Ahmad to spread radical and anti-Soviet Islamic literature in the Soviet republics in the hope of rebellions against their Communist governments.}} I do not find a single raid so far, rather there are just plannings and some covert money transfers to terrorist organisations it seems like a WP:HOAX. Do not merge it when there are only passing mentions of a few words regarding Pakistani raids which are dubious or say hoax event. Nxcrypto Message 11:29, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
  • Keep or Merge: The article is quite notable but has not been given much attention.

The book what we won in America secret war by Bruce riedel highlights the notability and states that :-

"The cross-border operations were extraordinarily provocative—“bear

baiting,” as the ISI later called them. The Russian archives show that on

several occasions they successfully disrupted traffic on a critical rail line

from Samarkand in Central Asia to the Termez border checkpoint, but

they never sparked any dissidence against the Soviets among the Muslim

populations of Soviet Uzbekistan or Tajikistan. {{Green|Eventually the Russians decided that the attacks were too much to tolerate. In April 1987

the Soviet ambassador in Islamabad warned the Pakistani foreign minis

ter that if they continued, the Soviet army and air force would retaliate

inside Pakistan.}} By April 1987 General Akhtar had been promoted to a

new assignment as chairman of Pakistan’s Joint Chiefs of Staff. Hamid

Gul, his successor as director general of the ISI, ordered an end to cross

border operations. The pot was boiling a bit too hot for Zia."

Further more in a book by Hein Günter Kiessling Page number 57-58 also mentions:

the mujahideen activities inside soviet union which penetrated 25 km beyond the Amu river which was international border. For example in 1986 a attack on hydro-electric power plants were carried out by mujahideen using Chinese and egyption supplied rocket launchers. These activities caused anger amongst the Russian high command and warning by the soviet ambassador was given and eventually Pakistani high command halted further attacks/Operations given the consequences.

Book link :- https://www.google.com.pk/books/edition/Faith_Unity_Discipline/pIQjDgAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=isi+book&printsec=frontcover

I'm sure more research on this topic will help.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Rahim231 (talk • contribs)

: You should thoroughly go through WP:MILNG, as there is little to no information available about the raids, such as details on how they unfolded, their results, or their impact. It appears to be a passing mention of an insignificant event that does not warrant an article, let alone using an infobox template for it. Garuda Talk! 20:32, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

  • Keep I struggle to understand this nomination's logic for delete. The Soviet-Afghan war article is over-WP:SIZE-ed and in dire need of WP:OKFORKing; merging is not a solution. Numerous sources discuss the interventions in the Soviet Union. What sources speak of the raids as "measly"? How does the article glorify the raids or push a particular POV? And *even if* it was possible to answer these questions in the positive, that would be a content issue, not one of notability. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 13:50, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
  • :You should go through the [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raids_inside_the_Soviet_Union_during_the_Soviet%E2%80%93Afghan_War#Raid Raid] section and sources have only passing mentions of such militant raids, only spun around the Soviet Afghan War. There's not enough significant coverage to have its own standalone article. Garuda Talk! 14:45, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
  • ::This is not a content discussion, it is a notability discussion. WP:NEXIST. Regards, Goldsztajn (talk) 00:51, 24 December 2024 (UTC)
  • :::This is WP:BUTITEXISTS argument. In order to meet WP:GNG, an article must be sourced by reliable sources with substantial coverage, here it's not the same case. Notability could be established through few lines of passing mentions but that doesn't validate to have a standalone article. Garuda Talk! 01:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.