:Talk:2003 invasion of Iraq

Hi, I feel like Bush's condemnation of Iraq is very relevant to the 2003 invasion of Iraq article.

It's not a freudian slip. he says 'Iraq too' afterwards. this needs to be in there somewhere. It's highly relevant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUEr7TayrmU CalfRaiser150 (talk) 13:16, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

:Problem is, do any RS think this? Slatersteven (talk) 13:17, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

::who is rs CalfRaiser150 (talk) 13:20, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

::wp:rs, read it please, ohh and wp:or. Slatersteven (talk) 13:25, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

:::Youtube video of the Telegraph is not reliable? CalfRaiser150 (talk) 13:26, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

::::Clearly Bush said this and clearly it is relevant, so please help me add it instead of just breaking down. I'm new to wikipedia. CalfRaiser150 (talk) 13:29, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

:::::It is you saying it was not a slip up, and that he thinks this, the source does not say that. Slatersteven (talk) 13:30, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

::::::Have you watched the clip? he says 'Iraq too'. That is the admission. CalfRaiser150 (talk) 13:32, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

But I have raised my objections time for others to chip in. Slatersteven (talk) 13:31, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

If there is something to be made of this, then it will be made in sources. Cinderella157 (talk) 21:58, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

There is a whole separate Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_the_Iraq_War) trying to relativise the illegality of the 2003 invasion (the article is even titled "Legality of the Iraq War" as opposed to "Illegality of the Iraq War"). An interesting contrast with more recent developments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War#Legality_and_declaration_of_war

Just saying that perhaps there is a little bit too much bias here (or there)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.97.79.80 (talk) 20:22, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Please, NSA, I'm not implying that it was the USA that invaded Iraq. Don't persecute and censor me.

I just want to know how exactly this “2003” invaded Iraq. Is that a country, a year, a continent or an ethnicity (like the "western ethinicity")? Edefoam (talk) 15:46, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

:No it is saying in 2003 Iraq was invaded. And no the USA did not invade Iraq, and an international coalition did. Slatersteven (talk) 15:48, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

::International coalition led by USA. Nightwolf87 (talk) 15:43, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

This might be a stupid question. Both the top section and infobox of this article indicate that the illegal invasion began on March 20th 2003, while the rest of the article frequently refers to the initial invasion phase starting on March 19th 2003. Why are there two different starting dates mentioned here? I feel like this could be confusing to readers. Karkafs Desiderium (talk) 01:32, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

:This is probably a matter of which time zone is being applied. It should be Iraq time. The date is referred to at several places, so I'm not quite certain how to resolve this. Cinderella157 (talk) 23:58, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

file:Flag on Saddam Firdos Square Statues face 2003-04-09.jpg

Despite what @Swatjester may say about the nature of this cheering as purposeful during the Firdos Square statue destruction, {{tq|Iraqi civilians were in fact cheering the toppling of the statue}} and {{tq|Iraqi civilians cheer as American soldiers topple Saddam Hussein's statue in Baghdad's Firdos Square}}, the article has a section going over this,

{{tq|Before the statue was toppled, Marine Corporal Edward Chin of 1st Tank Battalion, 1st Marine Division (attached to 3rd Battalion 4th Marines) climbed the ladder and placed a U.S. flag over the statue's face. According to the book "Shooter", by Coughlin, Kuhlman, and Davis, other Marines of the 3/4 realized the PR disaster unfolding as the formerly cheering crowd became silent, with one woman shouting at the Marines to remove the flag.}}

where it's clearly described that snapping a photo at this time would only appear the Iraqis are purposefully, and thus not WP:POV, not incidentally cheering the toppling of the statue then. Maybe what was not known was it's hard to find a public domain photo with closeups of the crowd cheering the statue toppling, this would be a concise description which fulfills WP:TOOMUCH, but I had no problem with that description if such a photo was found, notwithstanding that the Iraq war page photo is {{tq|what we're left with.}} However the correct way to deal with that is not for @Swatjester and @Adr28382 to disregard 45.73.35.210 (me)'s complaint

{{tq|maintaining constructiveness (nothing was taken from civilian cheers)}}

and it reiterated as

{{tq|Photo is much less meaningful in context WP:POV. Accurately describing this context in the page's infobox would be WP:TOOMUCH.}}

as not constructive. Hopefully the two admins and @User:Adr28382 will finally see the rationality and evidence now. Lumbering in thought (talk) 02:54, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

:What you did was engaged in an edit war against four other editors without attempting to gain consensus while WP:LOUTSOCKing. Do not do that again. ⇒SWATJester ^{Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!} 03:07, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

::Because I intend to keep my account and a prong here is {{tq|good faith}}, that apparently has been questioned, I would point out that it was during a weekday, during business hours, on the IP account Talk page that many would tend to check I planned to come back on the {{tq|main computer}} and I do not have a universal password that would enable me to log in to Wikipedia without having to manually look up the password or painlessly, and one of the reverts was to one with the edit summary {{tq|What?|}}. Lumbering in thought (talk) 03:34, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

:::I think we can AGF about using the IP but it is WP:BRD, not WP:BRRRRRRD - particularly when the objections are couched in P&G. This discussion should have been initiated earlier. Cinderella157 (talk) 04:20, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

::::I get the gist of what you're saying with all this jargon (two acronyms which aren't linked and one of which seems to only exist on The Free Dictionary), but to be clear, I'm not conceding the fact that reverting {{tq|What?}}, with zero extra effort on my part, was absolutely justified. There was no three-revert WP:AVOIDEDITWAR violation. Lumbering in thought (talk) 21:43, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

• WP:INFOBOXPURPOSE tells us not to try to write the article in the infobox. Using a photo essay in the infobox falls foul of this and advice at WP:COLLAGE as to when a collage is acceptable: {{tq| where overlapping or similar careful placement of component images is necessary to illustrate a point in an encyclopedic way}} [emphasis added]. This is not such a case. Multiple image captions just bloat the infobox and WP:TOOMUCH detail for any particular image just exacerbates the problem. WP:LEADIMAGE is telling use to pick an iconic [single] image for the lead. Cinderella157 (talk) 04:17, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
• :We've already discussed getting the new photo from the Iraq War page. We know this, yet instead of us creating a new topic that addresses the issue holistically either here or the w:Talk:Iraq_War page, it seems WP:POV to only bring that up in response to us agreeing about finding a single image in a collage problematic. Lumbering in thought (talk) 22:01, 1 December 2024 (UTC)