:Talk:American frontier

:The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. – robertsky (talk) 16:03, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

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:American frontier → {{no redirect|Wild West}} – Per WP:COMMONNAME. [https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=American+frontier%2C+wild+west%2C+old+west&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3&case_insensitive=true The ngram] indicates a higher appearance of Wild West compared to American frontier. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 02:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

• Support. "Wild West" is pretty much the common name. JIP | Talk 11:07, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose Ngrams are, frankly, garbage for this kind of thing. The "Wild West" period traditionally covers the time frame from 1849 (the California Gold Rush) through maybe 1900. It doesn't include the earlier periods included in the article. If we're being more specific, it refers to the period after the Civil War until MAYBE 1912. But I'm sure in the end the mighty Google will win out over RS and scholarly sources. Intothatdarkness 11:45, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
• Support – clear common name. "American frontier" could also refer to Canada–United States border or Mexico–United States border. 🐔 Chicdat  ^{Bawk to me!} 13:33, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
• :Yet the article covers more than the trans-Mississippi West and the period between 1865 and 1912. Wild West is NOT a common name for the earlier periods and locations in the article. Intothatdarkness 13:39, 27 March 2025 (UTC) I've added a link to this discussion at talk: WikiProject American Old West. Intothatdarkness 13:46, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose. "Wild West" is not a perfect synonym for "American frontier", so WP:COMMONNAME does not apply here since it is not an accurate title for the scope and content of the article. For example, the article discusses Alaska and Hawaii, which are not traditionally considered part of the Wild West. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 18:13, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose the Wild West was only one component of a much larger frontier factor in American history. "Wild West" term is not much used in scholarly studies or titles of history courses. Rjensen (talk) 20:04, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose. For reasons stated by User:Rjensen. The Wild West is a subset of the American frontier. That's why the academic field is called "frontier studies", not "Wild West studies". --Coolcaesar (talk) 21:08, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:::Let me add that but it's mostly a 20th century invention as opposed to the actual frontier. Will Wright said in 2001: "The Wild West is probably the most popular myth of our time. It is celebrated in movies, television, novels, and advertising, as well as in clothes, furniture, art, music, rodeos, vacations...." [ Will Wright, The Wild West: The Mythical Cowboy and Social Theory (2001)]. See also Paul Christensen . “The ‘Wild West’: The Life and Death of a Myth.” Southwest Review, vol. 93, no. 3, 2008, pp. 310–25. online at http://www.jstor.org/stable/43472911 Rjensen (talk) 23:07, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

::::Actually it's a myth that was also celebrated when it was taking place (dime novels and so on) in addition to later on. But as we've noted, that's not what this article is about. Intothatdarkness 11:06, 28 March 2025 (UTC)

:::::Yes, excellent point, and I now see we do cover it at Frontier myth. Andrewa (talk) 09:37, 3 April 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose. I think we need articles on both topics. But I don't recommend a split, rather a new article needs to be written, and this one tidied up a bit. Andrewa (talk) 09:41, 3 April 2025 (UTC)