:Talk:Big Bushkill Creek

Bushkill Creek (Monroe County) and Big Bushkill Creek appear to be referring to the same stream. Also according to USGS [http://geonames.usgs.gov/redirect.html GNIS] the official name is just "Bush Kill" so that should probably be the name of the combined page (Bush Kill currently redirects to Big Bushkill Creek). Kmusser 18:53, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

• I concur- let's merge and rename Jmpenzone 00:46, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

• Caution - I quote from Gertler, Edward. Keystone Canoeing, Seneca Press, 2004. {{ISBN|0-9749692-0-6}}, page 93, "Do not confuse Bushkill Creek with Big Bushkill Creek..." He then continues with a description. His map on page 92 shows Bushkill Creek joining the Delaware River at Easton. His map on page 101 shows Big Bushkill Creek joining the Delaware River at Bushkill. Gjs238 01:31, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

:::I think this merge would help in that, The Bushkill Creek he is referring to is at Bushkill Creek, while Bushkill Creek (Monroe County) is referring to Big Bushkill Creek (which USGS calls Bush Kill).Kmusser 14:02, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

• Any resolution on this?--evrik ^(talk) 14:25, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

::I went ahead and merged the content, it needs an admin to move the page to Bush Kill. Kmusser 14:47, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

• I reverted the changes. I think they are different per Gjs238. --evrik ^(talk) 20:09, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
• Based on what? The cite above is pretty clearly talking about Bushkill Creek which is indeed different, it joins the Delaware at Easton. Bush Kill, and Big Bushkill Creek, and Bushkill Creek (Monroe County) which are what I merged were all described as joining the Delaware at the town of Bushkill and both Big Bushkill Creek and Bushkill Creek are listed as alternative names for Bush Kill in [http://geonames.usgs.gov/pls/gnispublic/f?p=gnispq:3:::NO::P3_FID:1198145 GNIS]. Take a look at a map (that GNIS link has a link to several), there's clearly only one stream joining the Delaware at Bushkill. Kmusser 20:28, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
• Well, first ... I don't like the name Bush Kill. It should probably be Bush Kill Creek. Second, this tis what cam up on my search of the GNIS:

--evrik ^(talk) 21:13, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

:Ok, do you know what you're looking at there? Each GNIS entry is a different stream. Each entry links to a page giving exact coordinates and further links to maps showing where that stream is. Currently only two of those have Wikipedia articles. The article at Bushkill Creek describes the last stream there and that one is fine. The Big Bushkill Creek and Bushkill Creek (Monroe County) articles both describe the stream named Bush Kill on the Flatbrookville map (the 4th entry). Note there is nothing in Pennsylvania named Big Bushkill Creek. And I'm sorry you don't like the name, but that's what its name is. I might not like it either but I'm not going to propose calling it Musser Creek on my whim. Now Big Bushkill Creek is listed as an alternative map, but I'd rather use the streams official name, if someone goes looking for Big Bushkill Creek on a topo map they aren't going to find it. Kmusser 03:33, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

• I still don't like the article name Bush Kill, what about Bush Kill (stream)? I could live with Big Bushkill Creek. --evrik ^(talk) 19:12, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

::I'm confused as to what's wrong with Bush Kill. That is its name, why would you call it something else? We could use Big Bushkill Creek, but since that's not how it shows up on maps I think that's confusing. If that is the more common local usage we probably should use that, but then we should also have a citation for it. Bush Kill (stream) indicates you're disambiguating it from some other Bush Kill that isn't a stream which is not the case here (there is another Bush Kill, but that's also a stream so that wouldn't help). If you just don't like the word Kill - well take that up with the English language. -- Kmusser (talk) 22:33, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

::Meanwhile I'm going to redo the merge but I'll leave it at Big Bushkill Creek for now.-- Kmusser (talk) 22:37, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

• This is fine by me. --evrik ^(talk) 23:20, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
• A move would make this the only river in the long List of Pennsylvania rivers without a "Xyz River" descriptor (river, creek, brook, stream, fork, run, etc.). It's good that they're merged, but I'd suggest leaving it here as well. If you'd like to open a new move request, you can do so at Wikipedia:Requested moves anytime. Dekimasuよ! 07:00, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

:Kill is a descriptor, naming something Xyz Kill Creek is sort of like Xyz Stream Stream, but ok. Kmusser (talk) 11:56, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

::I learned something new. Dekimasuよ! 00:33, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

• Kinda like Schuylkill River? --evrik ^(talk) 15:13, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

::I didn't say it was never done, there are examples of streams called Xyz River Creek or Xyz Brook Creek as well. Just because streams with redundant descriptions exist, doesn't mean it should be the preferred method of naming. Kmusser (talk) 15:41, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

::To clarify a redundant description is fine if, as in the case of Schuylkill River it has become the established name of the feature. What I'm objecting to is Wikipedia adding a redundant description to the name in a case where it isn't. Kmusser (talk) 15:59, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

• After some thought, I really don't care. Whover feels most strongly about it can fix it up. I only ask that they get all the redirects right and that they remove the redlinks from the table above. --evrik ^(talk) 18:01, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

:::I'll leave it as is for now, I'm not going to push the rename if I'm the only one supporting it. I'll see about those redlinks, most of those are too small to really deserve an article, but they could be redirected to their respective parent streams. Kmusser (talk) 20:31, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

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