:Talk:Julia Sebutinde

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Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Julia Sebutinde. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

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{{Edit extended-protected|Julia Sebutinde|answered=yes}}

would like to write about her vote on the South African case against Israel. Qakhoo (talk) 16:21, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

:File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you. Shadow311 (talk) 17:22, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

{{Edit extended-protected|Julia Sebutinde|answered=yes}}

I propose the following change:

OLD: "Sebutinde was born in the Kampala, Uganda to ..."

NEW: "Sebutinde was born in Kampala, Uganda, to ..." Hkfscp11 (talk) 04:30, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

:{{done}} Jamedeus (talk) 04:47, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

{{Edit extended-protected|Julia Sebutinde|answered=yes}}

It may be a good idea to add, after the line about the recent ICJ opinion, ICJ case on Israel's occupation of the Palestinian territories. Something like:

"Similarly, Judge Sebutinde was the only judge to have dissent from the entirety of the ICJ's advisory opinion regarding Israel's occupation of the Palestinian territories."

(See the Court's opinion - https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20240719-adv-01-00-en.pdf and Judge Sebutinde's dissent - https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20240719-adv-01-02-en.pdf) Peter Kelford (talk) 07:28, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

:It would be preferable to provide secondary coverage of her lone dissenting decision, and not relying on primary court documents – macaddct1984 ^{(talk | contribs)} 12:42, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

:File:Extended-protection-unlocked.svg Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. Left guide (talk) 01:59, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

@Vice_Regent

By including the information regarding Pastor Gary Skinner, Watato Church, and the information they are “Christian Zionists”, it is inferred by the reader that Julie Sebutinde is a Christian Zionist when she has not stated as such. Likewise, this addition appears to only serve the purpose of discrediting her jurisprudence by implying bias given her ruling on the ICJ regarding Israel/Palestine. This is only poor, unsourced speculation and should be deleted.

“Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard. If you are connected to one of the subjects of this article and need help, see this page.” DanielMesh (talk) 17:11, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

{{ping|Vice_regent}}: Your edits from 2014-07-12 were reverted, with the edit summary explaining how they violated WP:SPECULATION, WP:OP, and WP:BLP. You were also admonished on this talk page by User:Danielmeshel for your "Potentially libelous addition". Per WP:BRD, discussion should have preceded the similar edits you made on 2025-01-18, which I've just reverted. Please gain consensus rather than edit-warring. Thanks. Dotyoyo (talk) 02:37, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

:By the way, Danielmeshel's comment is an WP:ARBECR violation. For editors with 22 edits, things related to "the ICJ regarding Israel/Palestine" do not exist, except in the context of an edit request. That comment is not an edit request, it is participation in a consensus forming discussion, which is prohibited. Regardless of the merits of their argument, editors active in the PIA topic area should not treat non-EC editor as if they are EC editors. Sean.hoyland (talk) 04:33, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

::{{ping|Sean.hoyland}}: Thanks for pointing this out. Dotyoyo (talk) 01:53, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

:::Also, I never got the ping from DanielMesh. But, regardless, can you explain how the edits are in violation of that? This is clearly not unsourced because there were citations. VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 00:22, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

::::{{ping|Vice_regent}}: Wikipedia values expert opinion. Who has an expertise on the thought processes of Julia Sebutinde? If you guessed "Julia Sebutinde", you'd be correct! It's WP:VERIFIABLE that she credits Pastor Skinner for some of her values because we have a quote from her saying so. We generally don't generate or repeat WP:SPECULATION regarding the religious views of public figures, or the impact those views might have on their lives, without supporting statements by them. Without supporting statements, claims of things like their "sympathy to Israel" are just rumors that violate WP:BLP. Wikipedia is not TMZ. The suggestion that Sebutinde's rulings were swayed by her faith was followed by two references: a Wall Street Journal article, and a Dawn newspaper article.

::::The WSJ article by Robert Nicholson explains how Sebutinde "cites the legal documents and principles that justify those rights". That's verifiable. But when it mentions her faith, it does so by cautiously couching the statement within a hypothetical that switches context to one that recognizes the possibly of widespread religious influence on people's lives: "If Judge Salam’s Muslim identity shapes his views, [then] Judge Sebutinde’s Christianity no doubt shapes hers". This context switching was lost in the Wikipedia version, which called out Sebutinde's alleged "sympathy" (a term not mentioned in either source) toward Isreal as a one-off personal trait.

::::The Dawn newspaper article by Zarrar Khuhro states {{tq|One cannot glance into Sebtinde’s[sic] mind and discern her motivations}}. That's an accurate start, but he then continues {{tq|but given her approach one can somewhat safely assume that there is another factor in play when it comes to her blind support of Israel, and this is the increasing role of US-based evangelical churches in East Africa.}} (So he's doing exactly what he said cannot be done?! BTW, note how the term "blind" echoes the article's earlier use of "willfully deaf and dumb", forming a clearly subjective cross-sensory personal attack.) If the article had instead said that one can {{tq|somewhat safely assume}} that someone is bribing her or threatening her loved ones to get her to rule a certain way, would such speculation find its way into Wikipedia? Why not? If one truly wants to understand the details of Sebutinde's rationale (e.g., ICJ jurisdiction, relevance of uti possidetis juris, the still-binding bilateral negotiation framework from the 1990s including the need for security, lack of genocidal intent, Sebutinde's rationales behind her views on the various provisional measures, etc.), her ICJ opinions are publicly available. If, on the other hand, an author wants to hide those details and avoid exposing them to a reader, then delegitimization via rumor-based personal attack can be more effective, easier, and quicker ... when people buy into the rumor.

::::Dotyoyo (talk) 09:39, 19 March 2025 (UTC)

dr Zach Foster mentiones on twitter some of the places she has copied from (see https://nitter.poast.org/_ZachFoster/status/1883673535421223390#m), Quite incredible that this hasn't been discovered before, Huldra (talk) 10:37, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

• [https://archive.is/znqMm ICJ president accused of plagiarism in dissenting opinion on Israeli occupation], Rayhan Uddin, 27 January 2025, Middle East Eye:

::"The three sentences appear to be lifted, almost word for word, from an article published in December 2021 by Douglas J Feith in the Hudson Institute."

::"Foster pointed out in his thread that Sebutinde also lifted several sentences from The Jewish Virtual Library, changing a few words."

:Huldra (talk) 03:32, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

Julia Sebutinde, who arguably holds the most prestigious judicial position, plagiarised Israel lobbyists in her judgement on the South Africa genocide case:

• Norman Finkelstein: Gaza’s Gravediggers: An Inquiry into Corruption in High Places, OR Books, June 2025

• Max Blumenthal: [https://thegrayzone.com/2025/01/24/icj-president-christian-zionist-end-times/ New ICJ president plagiarized in the name of Christian Zionism], The Grayzone, 24 January 2025

• [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_vWIW_fNuE Malfeasance at the International Court of Justice] - Mouin Rabbani Interviews Norman Finkelstein, Jadaliyya, 4 February 2025

--93.211.223.101 (talk) 19:07, 30 January 2025 (UTC) --91.54.5.159 (talk) 06:00, 5 February 2025 (UTC)