:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allan Banford (2nd nomination)

{{AFD help}}

:{{la|Allan Banford}} – (View AfDView log{{int:dot-separator}} [https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Allan_Banford_(2nd_nomination) Stats])

:({{Find sources AFD|Allan Banford}})

Fails WP:GNG, WP:MUSICBIO and WP:CREATIVE. Article deleted in 2015 but recreated as a poorly-written promotional piece by two SPA accounts, one of which is based in Hong Kong, where Mr. Banford comes from. Redirects to the artist's former recording company Intec Digital have been repeatedly reverted by the latter SPA account. This is a strange one, as the article is currently about Mr. Banford's DJing and recording career in the 2000s, which is utterly non-notable. However, in the last ten years Mr. Banford has almost completely given up his music career and concentrated on his painting instead, and he appears to be more notable as an artist, although it must be said that reliable sources are thin on the ground here as well. The best source appears to be this interview in Murze magazine [https://www.murze.org/single-post/2018/11/20/Allan-Banford-Fine-Artist-interview], although I'm really not sure if Murze qualifies as an RS or not. Even so, it seems to be the only source remotely close to being reliable and independent, and more sources would be required to keep this article. Richard3120 (talk) 22:58, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Richard3120 (talk) 22:59, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Richard3120 (talk) 22:59, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions. Richard3120 (talk) 23:00, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. Richard3120 (talk) 23:01, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

:Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Hong Kong-related deletion discussions. Richard3120 (talk) 23:01, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

• Delete - Fails WP:GNG, WP:MUSICBIO and WP:NARTIST. Even if Murze is an RS, interviews, as per policy, are primary sources, and cannot be used towards establishing notability.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 23:12, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

::Comment - oh, and given the behavior of the SPA editors makes this a very good candidate for WP:SALT as well.Onel5969 ^{TT me} 23:13, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

:::{{re|onel5969}} I agree, but I can see that it would be likely to be recreated as Allan Banford (artist), or Allan Banford (musician), etc. Richard3120 (talk) 23:35, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

• Delete per norm. Also, it seem he has no link to Hong Kong, according to the current version of the article. Or due to GNG or other reason, not appeared in South China Morning Post, the dominant English newspaper of Hong Kong. Matthew hk (talk) 23:30, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

::{{re|Matthew hk}} The Murze article says he is from Hong Kong but based in London. More baffling is the inclusion of Colombia in the article's infobox – there's absolutely no indication anywhere of his connection with that country. Richard3120 (talk) 23:35, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

:::Well, i have to correct myself, he had an interview in [http://www.takungpao.com.hk/culture/237147/2018/0915/217409.html ta kung pao], but that newspaper was owned by the Central government (or other words under the propaganda department of the communist party) and not many real Hong Kong people read it (but it can freely circulated in China, thus it may have a big audience base), and reputation, well...the same as the hate of central government? Also interview was a primary source. Matthew hk (talk) 23:44, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

• Delete I found information about when he was a DJ, his music, and his art, but nothing from reliable sources and nothing about him. Murze looks like it started in Aug 2018, so probably not RS. He's listed as an "award winning artist" but no one says what award. As Richard3120 says an article about his art would be much better, but there would still be a dearth of reliable information Aurornisxui (talk) 03:14, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
• Delete Does not appear to pass guidelines: Very little available info. His own website or 'commercial' sites only; plus the Murze coverage as discussed above. Eagleash (talk) 08:27, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
• Comment As for the questions if "Murze" is a reliable source: No. It is a source where artists pay a fee to submit their work. If selected, they get to promote themselves and display their works. His "interview," if one wants to call it that, is simply answering the same questionnaire that all the selected artists are asked. ShelbyMarion (talk) 22:14, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
• Delete and SALT Blatant vanity article from an SPA editor who has a history of recreating an article for this subject. It seems the editor feels the subject deserves a wiki entry for existence but there is not enough reliable source coverage to make him note worthy. ShelbyMarion (talk) 22:47, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
• Comment: what a coincidence, the SPA IP has returned to completely rewrite the article... sadly still without any reliable sources. Richard3120 (talk) 04:07, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

::In light of this, I have struck my SALT suggestion above. I agree the new article still fails for not being sourced, but in fairness to the subject he may have notability as an artist, it's just that reliable source coverage is lacking. However, looking over his website he has had a fair number of exhibits. I'm uncertain weather or not that would satisfy WP:ARTIST as my knowledge is in music (which he definitely fails). ShelbyMarion (talk) 15:03, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

:::I would say creation protection in the article namespace but not draft namespace is appropriate. Other user still able to develop an in-depth draft (with citation) for the subject as a painter, but prevent any low quality draft move to article namespace again. Then people with move rights can move the draft to article. Matthew hk (talk) 10:58, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

• Delete This seems a prime candidate for G11 but in the interest of putting the final nail in the coffin, it should probably finish this AFD. I agree with the salting as they've already attempted to subvert this AFD [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Allan_Banford_Artist here]. Praxidicae (talk) 13:00, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

::As a side note, why was this even redirected to Intec Digital to begin with? Praxidicae (talk) 13:10, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

:::{{re|Praxidicae}} as stated above, the subject was formerly signed to that record label, before he became an artist. Richard3120 (talk) 15:20, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

• Comment: The SPA has dramatically reworded the article since this AfD was opened, but still has provided no reliable independent sources... all the art exhibitions are links to the galleries advertising their events, and all the musical releases are links to the user-generated site Discogs which simply demonstrates existence of the records. The rest is OR and a non-notable event about an accidental photograph of the Queen. The SPA has also attempted to remove the AfD notice several times in an attempt to sabotage the AfD discussion: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Allan_Banford&diff=next&oldid=879115986], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Allan_Banford&diff=next&oldid=879432984], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Allan_Banford&diff=next&oldid=879445704]. Richard3120 (talk) 15:20, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

:Well i have to file a SPI due to coordinated edits and the alleged sockmaster is blocked already in 2015. Matthew hk (talk) 03:14, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

• Delete and SALT please. This is just a heavy promotional effort, with very thin sourcing. I can't find any decent sourcing for the art side in a search, other than the one or two mentioned above. GNG fail. The draft should also be deleted. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 08:05, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

{{clear}}

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.