:Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/King Igwegbe Odum, the Omenuko of History

He's non-notable, "0" google hits. Page was created by {{user|Igbogirl}} and looking at her contributions this is most likely her great-grandfather. She also created the page Precious Williams where she mentions him. That article is also up for AFD. Delete. Stubbleboy 13:19, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

• Delete per nom. Incidentally, there's something fishy about this one and the other edits and nominations that {{user|Igbogirl}} has made... OBM | ^{blah blah blah} 13:39, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
• DeleteWeak Delete, non-notable. --Yamla 15:55, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
• Delete; fails WP:BIO. — pd_THOR ^{| =/\=} | 16:47, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
• Delete-O google hits => hoax. Storm05 17:24, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
• Comment I can find about four google hits if I search for "Igwegbe Odum". It appears that he was a chief, not a king, though the difference between these two titles may not be as straight-forward as they appear. --Yamla 17:30, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

• Keep As Yamla correctly points out there are Google hits on him. Chief and King are interchangeable. Here are the links: [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22igwegbe+odum%22] He is mentioned in a book called "My Africa" written by Mbonu Ojike, which you can see [http://www.amazon.com/MY-AFRICA-Mbonu-Ojike/dp/B0007DMNH8/sr=8-2/qid=1159414197/ref=sr_1_2/102-3202160-7576906?ie=UTF8&s=books here]. This book dedicates some four pages to Igwegbe Odum and refers to him as King Igewgbe Odum. On page 98 of the book, there is a picture of King Odum's dead body lying "in state" the picture caption reads "King Igwegbe Odum lying in state (1940). Mourning the death of the shrewdest politician I have ever known in my town of Ndizuogo are Igwegbe's eldest son......." [http://www.njas.helsinki.fi/pdf-files/vol14num1/njoku.pdf#search=%22%22igwegbe%20odum%22%22 This url] describes Igwegbe as the "Omenuko of history" - Omenuko, by Peter Nwana, is a famous Nigerian novel and it was the first novel to be written in the Nigerian language. Igwegbe is the subject matter of that novel. He is well known among Nigerians, is notable and deserves to be referenced on Wikipedia. In conclusion, Igwegbe Odum is a well-known African historical figure and most certainly not a hoax. Igbogirl 03:30, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
• Keep and move to Igwegbe Odum. Igbogirl is correct in that this is a real historical person on which the lead character in a famous Igbo novel by Pita Nwana has been based. This is mentioned in Alain Ricard, The Languages and Literatures of Africa: The Sands of Babel (James Currey Publishers, 2004, {{ISBN|0852555814}}, available on Google Books), p. 84, and in Harold Scheub, "A Review of African Oral Traditions and Literature", African Studies Review, Vol. 28, No. 2/3. (Jun. - Sep., 1985), p. 38. Scheub references an article by A. E. Afigbo, "Chief Igwegbe Odum: the Omenuko of History", in Nigeria Magazine, 90 (1966), p. 222-231. According to Scheub, Afigbo calls the novel "perhaps so far and from a literary point of view, one of the greatest ahievements of the [Igbo] language" (Scheub quoting Afigbo), but also argues that Omenuko, the fictionalized version of Chief Igwegbe Odum, is "nothing like his historical character" (Scheub's own words referencing Afigbo). Scheub's article is available on JSTOR. up+land 04:34, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
• comment thank you for doing this research.
• Keep per Uppland. If he was a king, or held a comparable title, he is notable enough to merit an article per WP:BIAS. - Smerdis of Tlön 14:28, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
• Comment It appears that he was not a king, just a local chief. I could be wrong on this, however. --Yamla 15:14, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
• Comment - The primary problem with the proposed guideline on Wikipedia:Notability (royalty) is that it is fairly obviously Eurocentric. A number of problems exist in attempting to analogize out of this to non-European traditional leaders. Nations of the sort whose borders are recognised by international law may represent colonial impostures that don't correspond to local realities. Similarly, the fact that the holder of a traditional title holds no legal precedence recognized by a national government may not accurately reflect the fact that local traditions make them persons whose decisions are given great importance. For example, the office of the Oba of Benin continues to exist, and the Oba is treated with great deference, even if the kingdom no longer exists as a legal entity, and the territory where the Oba's writ extends crosses several national borders. Per WP:BIAS, each holder of the title is as entitled to an article as the kings or queens of England, as far as I can see. If Igwegbe Odum held a similar position, his inclusion should be equally automatic, even if he's an obscure figure in the English speaking world. - Smerdis of Tlön 16:54, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
• Comment I am a Nigerian Igbo as you can tell by my username. I have an MA in Igbo history. In Igbo culture, 'Kings' and 'Chiefs' are ALL "local". King does not have the same meaning in Igboland and other parts of Nigeria/West Africa as it does in, say, England or Sweden. For example, if you were to compare it to New York: there would a be King/Chief for Manhattan and another for Queens and another for Staten Island. In some instances there might even be a different King/Chief for the Upper East Side and another for midtown. I think that Uppland has basically established Igwegbe's notability in his research above. African history at the period during which Igwegbe lived was not generally a written history. For this man to actually show up in books, on a Google search and to be discussed at lectures to this day, in my mind establishes him as somebody notable. And the book, Omenuko which is allegedly written about him, is a major part of Igbo literary history. If this were the first-ever English language novel published, I think it would have been given more respect hereIgbogirl 15:33, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
• Comment Obviously, the first English language novel should have an entry in the English Wikipedia. My point about the king vs. chief distinction was not to cast aspersion on the person, just to note that the notability criteria is written assuming a western-centric definition of the word, "king", which may not apply to Igwegbe Odum. Wikipedia:Notability (royalty) notes, for example, that a royal person is someone who is an official member of the ruling family of a country. Igwegbe Odum would not fit this definition. However, it is not my contention that this person is automatically not notable because he is not royalty (as per the notability definition). My only contention is that this person is not automatically notable for being a king or local chief. --Yamla 15:54, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
• comment Gotcha. Sorry to be pedantic but here is another example that illustrates my point. Princess_Comfort_Okpudili_Amobi_of_Ogidi This family were rulers only of Ogidi and therefore absolutely not the ruling family of any country - Ogidi is simply a regular sized town, in Anambra State, in Nigeria. Only 6 Google hits on her, two of those being Wikipedia hits and two being Answer.com hits hit. Therefore this person and her family would not seem to fit your critera for being notable for being royal, but you have however seen fit to include the article. I'm not meaning to be a pain, just trying to point out that Nigerian history and royalty is complex and sometimes indecipherable but should still be included. Thanks. Igbogirl 16:12, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
• Comment Once again, I have not seen fit to include that article. And you have provided no evidence that that article was nominated for deletion. Please refrain from comparing articles. A great number of articles on Wikipedia violate some policy or guideline or are otherwise substandard and just have not been fixed yet. That is not an excuse for lowering the quality of all other articles. Instead, we should improve other articles which currently do not measure up. --Yamla 16:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
• Keep. I don't really see how WP:NOBLE comes into it, since his nobility is debatable. Why not skip the debate and just go by WP:BIO, which he clearly passes as a local political figure under criterion 3? Kafziel ^Talk 17:29, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
• Keep per WP:BIAS, as noted by Smerdis of Tlön and as per up+land. Lethiere 05:02, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.