Talk:Ahmed Mater#draft for collections section

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Ahmed mater, magnetism installation, 2016, 02.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:37, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

:== Concerns About the Current Introductory Section ==

:I would like to raise several concerns regarding the current lead section of the Ahmed Mater article. As it stands, the introduction does not meet the encyclopedic standards expected for a figure of his cultural and artistic stature:

:‘’‘1. Oversimplified and Shallow Language in the Opening’’’

:The introductory language is overly simplified and lacks the conceptual depth expected in a serious encyclopedic entry. It omits major intellectual and artistic frameworks that define Ahmed Mater’s career. A more substantial and informative tone is needed to guide readers meaningfully.

:‘’‘2. Omission of Major Institutional and Professional Milestones’’’

:The lead section fails to mention Mater’s co-founding of ‘’‘Edge of Arabia’’’, a pioneering platform for contemporary Arab art, or his position as founding director of the ‘’‘Misk Art Institute’’’ in Riyadh. These roles are critical to understanding his influence as a cultural leader and should not be omitted from the summary.

:‘’‘3. Lack of Geographic and Socio-Political Context’’’

:Mater’s practice is deeply tied to the transformation of Saudi Arabia’s landscape and society. Landmark projects such as ‘’‘Desert of Pharan’’’, ‘’‘Magnetism’’’, and his recent land art initiatives in AlUla provide vital commentary on national identity and modernization. These aspects are currently missing.

:‘’‘4. Undermining the Educational Role of Wikipedia’’’

:Wikipedia is a public knowledge platform and must strive to educate. The current introduction offers little analytical framing or intellectual engagement with the subject’s work. This diminishes the educational value of the entry and does not serve readers seeking to understand Mater’s importance.

:‘’‘5. Neglect of Arabic Sources and Local Contexts’’’

:As someone familiar with Arabic-language journalism, scholarship, and cultural discourse, I see a clear gap in representation. Much of Mater’s critical reception, impact, and local visibility is documented in Arabic sources. These must be included to avoid skewing the article toward a narrow, Western-centric perspective.

:I therefore suggest updating the lead section to reflect a more comprehensive and accurate overview, such as the revised version I shared earlier. Instead of removing what is not yet fully understood, I encourage editors to expand and improve it. By prematurely closing off or simplifying entries like this, we risk losing valuable knowledge that could support a broader audience—especially students from the Middle East and the Arab world—who are actively seeking accessible, high-quality information on regional cultural figures.

:––– Arif11 (talk) 22:46, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

reworking poorly researched collections section --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 01:13, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

The British Museum,{{cite web |title=Ahmed Mater al-Ziad |url=https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/term/BIOG168772 |website=British Museum |access-date=6 May 2025}} the Brooklyn Museum,{{cite web |title=Ahmed Mater |url=https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/artists/20389 |website=Brooklyn Museum |access-date=6 May 2025}} Centre Pompidou,{{cite web |title=Ahmed Mater |url=https://www.centrepompidou.fr/en/ressources/personne/c6rBByp |website=Centre Pompidou |access-date=6 May 2025 |language=en-EN}} Dalloul Art Foundation,{{cite web |title=AHMED MATER - Artists |url=https://dafbeirut.org/en/ahmed-mater |website=Dalloul Art Foundation |access-date=6 May 2025}} the Los Angeles County Museum of Art (LACMA),{{cite web |title=Ahmed Mater |url=https://collections.lacma.org/node/163096 |website=LACMA Collections |access-date=6 May 2025}} the Nadour Collection{{cite web |title=Illumination XI & XII |url=https://nadour.org/collection/Illumination/ |website=Collection - Nadour |access-date=6 May 2025 |language=en}} Smithsonian National Museum of Asian Art,{{cite web |title=Ahmed Mater |url=https://asia.si.edu/explore-art-culture/collections/search/?edan_q=Ahmed%20Mater |website=National Museum of Asian Art |access-date=6 May 2025}} and the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum,{{cite web |title=Ahmed Mater |url=https://www.guggenheim.org/artwork/artist/ahmed-mater |website=The Guggenheim Museums and Foundation |access-date=6 May 2025}}

{{reflist-talk}}

== CV material moved off main space ==

Exhaustive, badly referenced material moved off main space. Return only if properly sourced and relevant. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 20:49, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

Ahmed Mater has presented solo exhibitions across major cities and institutions around the world. His work addresses themes of urban transformation, spiritual symbolism, and social change in Saudi Arabia. Selected solo exhibitions include:

• 2001 – Landing on the Earth's Surface, Al-Maseef Culture Club, Abha, Saudi Arabia.
• 2003 – X-Ray Project, 6th Saudi Malwan Contest Tour, Jeddah, Beirut, Sidon, and Manama (June 10 – September 25).
• 2004 – Standing in Front of You, King Khalid University, Abha, Saudi Arabia.
• 2004 – Chewing (Mudgah), Al-Miftaha Arts Village, Abha, Saudi Arabia.
• 2004 – The End, Al-Miftaha Arts Village, Abha (December 15 – 30).
• 2006 – Ahmed Mater Al Ziad Aseeri, Royal Embassy of Saudi Arabia, London (May 12).{{cite web |title=Ahmed Mater at the Royal Embassy |url=https://edgeofarabia.com/exhibitions/ahmed-mater-embassy-london-2006 |publisher=Edge of Arabia |access-date=May 2, 2025}}
• 2006 – Son of Aseer, Al-Miftaha Arts Village, Abha (October 10 – 30).
• 2009 – Illumination, Art Space, Dubai (March 15 – April 15).{{cite web |title=Ahmed Mater – Illumination |url=https://www.artspace-dubai.com/illumination |publisher=ArtSpace Dubai |access-date=May 2, 2025}}
• 2010 – Ahmed Mater, The Vinyl Factory Gallery, London (October 11 – 31).{{cite web |title=Ahmed Mater – The Vinyl Factory |url=https://www.vfeditions.com/exhibition/ahmed-mater-2010 |publisher=Vinyl Factory |access-date=May 2, 2025}}
• 2013 – 100 Found Objects, Sharjah Art Foundation, Sharjah, UAE.{{cite web |title=100 Found Objects |url=https://sharjahart.org/sharjah-art-foundation/events/100-found-objects |publisher=Sharjah Art Foundation |access-date=May 2, 2025}}
• 2016 – Symbolic Cities: The Work of Ahmed Mater, Arthur M. Sackler Gallery, Smithsonian Institution, Washington, D.C., USA.{{cite web |title=Symbolic Cities |work=National Museum of Asian Art |url=https://asia.si.edu/exhibition/symbolic-cities/ |publisher=Smithsonian Institution |access-date=May 2, 2025}}
• 2016 – Evolution of Man, Standing Rock, North Dakota, USA.{{cite web |title=Evolution of Man |url=https://edgeofarabia.com/exhibitions/evolution-of-man-standing-rock |publisher=Edge of Arabia |access-date=May 2, 2025}}
• 2017 – Mitochondria: Powerhouses, GALLERIA CONTINUA, San Gimignano, Italy (September 23, 2017 – January 7, 2018).{{cite web |title=Mitochondria: Powerhouses |url=https://www.galleriacontinua.com/exhibition/mitochondria-powerhouses-197 |publisher=GALLERIA CONTINUA |access-date=May 2, 2025}}
• 2017–2018 – Ahmed Mater: Mecca Journeys, Brooklyn Museum, New York City (December 1, 2017 – April 8, 2018).{{cite web |title=Ahmed Mater: Mecca Journeys |url=https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/exhibitions/ahmed_mater |publisher=Brooklyn Museum |access-date=May 2, 2025}}
• 2018–2019 – Stand in the Pathway and See, GALLERIA CONTINUA, Les Moulins, France (October 14, 2018 – June 2, 2019).{{cite web |title=Ahmed Mater – Stand in the Pathway and See |url=https://www.galleriacontinua.com/artists/ahmed-mater-86/exhibitions |publisher=GALLERIA CONTINUA |access-date=May 2, 2025}}
• 2023 – Ashab Al-Lal, Bin Matar House, Al Muharraq, Bahrain.{{cite web |title=Ahmed Mater: Ashab Al-Lal |url=https://www.mutualart.com/Artist/Ahmed-Mater/311B253AD877DD96/Biography |publisher=MutualArt |access-date=May 2, 2025}}{{cite web |title=Ashab Al-Lal by Ahmed Mater |url=https://shaikhebrahimcenter.org/en/events/ashab-al-lal-by-ahmed-mater/ |publisher=Shaikh Ebrahim Bin Mohammed Al-Khalifa Center for Culture and Research |access-date=May 2, 2025}}
• 2024 – Ahmed Mater: Chronicles, Christie’s, London (July 17 – August 22, 2024).{{cite web |title=Ahmed Mater Exhibition |url=https://www.christies.com/en/events/ahmed-mater-exhibition |publisher=Christie’s |access-date=May 2, 2025}}
• 2025 – Ahmed Mater: Antenna, UCCA Edge, Shanghai, China (March 8 – July 8, 2025).{{cite web |title=Ahmed Mater: Antenna |url=https://ucca.org.cn/en/exhibition/ahmed-mater-antenna/ |publisher=UCCA Edge |access-date=May 2, 2025}}

• 2006 – Word into Art: Artists of the Modern Middle East, British Museum Press. Published on the occasion of an exhibition at the British Museum highlighting modern Middle Eastern artists. {{cite book |last=Porter |first=Venetia |title=Word into Art |publisher=British Museum Press |year=2006 |isbn=9780714111643}}

• 2009 – ADACH Platform for Visual Arts in Venice, curated by Catherine David, presented during the 53rd Venice Biennale. {{cite web |title=ADACH Platform for Visual Arts |url=https://www.e-flux.com/directory/69993/adach-platform-for-visual-arts/ |website=e-flux Directory |access-date=4 May 2025}}

• 2009 – New Vision: Arab Contemporary Art in the 21st Century, Thames & Hudson. A major survey of contemporary Arab artists. {{cite book |title=New Vision: Arab Contemporary Art in the 21st Century |publisher=Thames & Hudson |year=2009 |isbn=9780500976982}}

• 2010 – Art of the Middle East: Modern and Contemporary Art of the Arab World and Iran, Merrell Publishers. {{cite book |last=Amirsadeghi |first=Hossein |title=Art of the Middle East |publisher=Merrell Publishers |year=2010 |isbn=9781858945002}}

• 2010 – Ahmed Mater, Booth-Clibborn Editions. A comprehensive monograph exploring Mater’s key projects. {{cite book |title=Ahmed Mater |publisher=Booth-Clibborn Editions |year=2010 |isbn=9781861543189}}

• 2012 – Edge of Arabia: Contemporary Art from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Booth-Clibborn Editions. {{cite web |title=Edge of Arabia Publication |url=https://edgeofarabia.com/publications/edge-of-arabia |website=Edge of Arabia |access-date=4 May 2025}}

• 2012 – Hajj: Journey to the Heart of Islam, British Museum Press. Edited by Venetia Porter. {{cite book |last=Porter |first=Venetia |title=Hajj: Journey to the Heart of Islam |publisher=Harvard University Press |year=2012 |isbn=9780674062184}}

• 2015 – Sculptures of Jeddah: Twentieth-Century Sculpture in the Arabian Peninsula, Booth-Clibborn Editions. A documentation of the public art landscape in Jeddah. {{cite web |title=Sculptures of Jeddah |url=https://store.abramsbooks.com/products/sculptures-of-jeddah |website=Abrams Books |access-date=4 May 2025}}

• 2016 – Desert of Pharan: Unofficial Histories Behind the Mass Expansion of Mecca, Lars Müller Publishers. A photographic and research-based exploration of Mecca’s urban transformation. {{cite web |title=Desert of Pharan |url=https://www.lars-mueller-publishers.com/desert-pharan |publisher=Lars Müller Publishers |access-date=4 May 2025}}

• 2024 – Ahmed Mater: Chronicles. Published in conjunction with his mid-career retrospective at Christie’s London (July–August 2024), the book presents over 100 works spanning two decades. {{cite web |title=Ahmed Mater: Chronicles |url=https://www.christies.com/en/events/ahmed-mater-exhibition |website=Christie’s |access-date=4 May 2025}}

• Forthcoming, 2025 – Prognosis: Saudi Arabia. A forthcoming publication that reflects on more than two decades of artistic production and social change in Saudi Arabia and the wider region. *Prognosis* is currently in development and will be published by Booth-Clibborn Editions. {{cite web |title=Ahmed Mater to Release Prognosis Monograph in 2025 |url=https://selectionsarts.com/ahmed-mater-to-release-prognosis-monograph-2025/ |website=Selections Arts Magazine |access-date=4 May 2025}}

{{reflist-talk}}

I have made some recent edits to the article, primarily based on Arif11's comments, which I found very convincing and insightful. I feel these changes are important ones \ to expand the scope of the discussion around this important figure.

I believe it’s essential that scholars and students visiting this page can learn about him in a manner similar to how they quickly understand an artist like Damien Hirst from his own Wikipedia entry. My goal was to ensure that this artist’s contributions to contemporary art and his cultural significance are adequately highlighted and accessible to a broad audience.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Profarthist (talk • contribs)

:Please sign your posts. I've signed this one for you, but moving forward, you need to add a signature. Netherzone (talk) 19:47, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

I reverted back to the main photo because, as I have been researching Dr. Mater for some time and recently visited his city of Abha in Aseer, I discovered that this photo resonates strongly with local Aseeri culture and links the artist to that region. The influence of Aseeri art, architecture, and culture is prominent throughout his work.

I believe keeping this particular image as the lead for the article is respectful of Aseeri culture and the artist. It's not obvious to Westerners or those not familiar with Aseeri culture at first glance but this is a particularly significant portrait of the artist.

: I have signed another of your posts for you, please sign your posts in the future. The image is an old one (with unclear copyright licensing), and for BLP's it' recommended that a recent photo is used. Netherzone (talk) 19:57, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

I have made additional changes to the career section by adding some historically significant references. Additionally, I moved the photograph of 'Magnetism' to this section, where the artwork is being described, which I believe makes more sense contextually.

I also restored the photographer's credit, which appeared in a previous version but was later removed. I think this credit is important for proper attribution.

The career section deserves more attention but I will have to fill in additional details and references at a later date.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Profarthist (talk • contribs)

:Please sign your posts, this is the third request that you do so. The article is now littered again with unsourced content, use of poor quality sources like the HuffPo, a self-published book, fragments of code littered in the article. Please make edit requests here so that other more experienced editors can review them first. Netherzone (talk) 20:02, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for speedy deletion:

• AHMED MATER SAUDIARABIA 2004.jpg
• Ahmed Mater-2025-04-19-23-39-24.jpg

You can see the reasons for deletion at the file description pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:51, 8 May 2025 (UTC)