Talk:Air India Express#Air India and Star Alliance

I oppose the merge, citing Ted (airline) and the various Virgin airlines. I'll take down the notice in a day, if no one objects. Thylacine222 14:58, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

:Agree to oppose the merge. They are entirely diff airline with diff IATA code etc. Please take down the merge tag. --Zack2007 06:05, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

:The 2 airlines are targeting 2 different market segments.Basically merging their article would prove to give wrong information and a would give a false brand image of the airlines.Reachmugunth (talk) 16:21, 25 January 2008 (UTC)mugu 25th jan 2008

::Merge: The thing is even if the airline has a different market segment or code, the airline is part of the AIR INDIA CORPORATION. I.e. it is a subsidy of AIR INDIA and hence should be part of the latter article. --Indianbllood (talk) 01:55, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

::: I oppose merging Air India Express with Air India because they are both different articles. It would be like merging Aeroflot with Aeroflot-Nord or Qantas with QantasLink. EZ1234 (talk) 07:30, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Also maybe you can give the Air India a different heading under the Air India article and give the details of the airlines codes/history/destinations in there. It does not need a huge article like this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Indianbllood (talk • contribs) 01:58, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Is this Air India Charters the same as Air India Express? Seems lke they are the same only the names arew different. I am placing a merge tag but I am not sure. --Deepak D'Souza (talk) 11:57, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes Air India Charters and Air India Express are same. Air India Charters Limited is an whole owned subsidary of National Aviation Company of India Limited (the company that holds Air India) and Air India Express is the brand that AICL holds. The relationship between Air India Express and AICL is similar to relationship between Air India and NACIL

AICL was formed in 1988 as part of Air India company to provide chartered services to corporates as well as for tourists to leading Indian destinations. The operations of AICL ceased in 2001, though the company remained. In 2003, Air India revived AICL to list its new brand Air India Express, a low cost airline.

Now the company is planning to separte AICL from NACIL as part of making Air India Express as an independent company. [http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/Air-India-to-hive-off-low-cost-arm-into-separate-entity/articleshow/6562857.cms] Thanks- KISH —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.196.140.79 (talk) 14:18, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm opening a discussion on this matter so the edit warring can stop.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 15:55, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

:I have submitted a dispute resolution. AIX is a part of Air India, I would like someone to comment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Airplane54 (talk • contribs) 15:57, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

::Can you provide a source saying that they are a member affiliate? They have their own webpage (http://www.airindiaexpress.in/) and the page does not state that they are part of Star Alliance of any way. Air India Express is a low-cost product. 68.119.73.36 (talk) 16:05, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

:::The dispute resolution case has been closed. WP:DRN requires that "extensive discusion" take place before a case is filed. Better to start discussing it here and all parties please cite reliable sources to support your view(s).-- — Keithbob • Talk • 16:07, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

::::Silk air has its own website and it is an affiliate member of Star AllianceAirplane54 (talk) 16:08, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

::::::Do you have a source for that? You can't say they are a affiliate member, you need visible sources saying that it is a affiliate member. No Star Alliance logo on SilkAir's or Air India's website. 68.119.73.36 (talk) 16:10, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

:::::::Well it says on the star alliance wiki and to be honest with you, give me a place where star alliacne lists the affiliates. Airplane54 (talk) 16:12, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

http://www.silkair.com/jsp/cms/en_UK/mi_silkair_experience/experience-loyalty.jsp Also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_India_LimitedAirplane54 (talk) 16:13, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Look at the structuring of the air india limited company and give me a response to that.Airplane54 (talk) 16:22, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

If you dont have a response i will undo your edit.Airplane54 (talk) 16:27, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

:{{U|Airplane54}} please slow down. You have not provided an reliable sources for your claim that AIX is an affiliate of Star Alliance and according to WP guideline WP:BURDEN the burden of proof is on you. A WP article is not a valid source for another WP article. Furthermore your link to Silk Air does not mention Air India Express. Please look for other sources and discuss them here before adding anything to the infobox. If you continue to add the same information without getting consensus here you may be blocked for WP:3RR. So please slow down and let the discussion progress.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 16:37, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Well this is what I am trying to say, Silk air is a affiliate member of Star Alliance. They are basically the same thing as Air India Express. Keithbob, does it say anywhere the star alliance affliate members.Airplane54 (talk) 16:41, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

I would like to have an aviation wiki editior in on this.Airplane54 (talk) 16:43, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Not related to Air India Express but here is some situations where subsidiaries do not join the parent airline alliance as affiliates until years later:

• LAN Airlines joined Oneworld in 2000 (http://www.oneworld.com/member-airlines/lan;jsessionid=6808CF995F439C7CF61CADD210D5EE36). LAN Colombia is part of LAN Airlines, but didn't join Oneworld as an affiliate member until March 2014 (http://www.oneworld.com/news-information/oneworldnews/-/asset_publisher/QtTQ7EuCzxhd/content/lan-colombia-is-now-part-of-oneworld/maximized?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oneworld.com%2Fnews-information%2Foneworldnews%3Fp_p_id%3D101_INSTANCE_QtTQ7EuCzxhd%26p_p_lifecycle%3D0%26p_p_state%3Dnormal%26p_p_mode%3Dview%26p_p_col_id%3Dcolumn-1%26p_p_col_pos%3D2%26p_p_col_count%3D5)
• Avianca is a member of Star Alliance, Avianca Brazil is part of Avianca but is not an affiliate member..it will join sometime in 2014 (http://www.staralliance.com/en/press/ceb2-prp/)

68.119.73.36 (talk) 16:53, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

How did Piedmont Airlines become an affiliate, by US Airways.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piedmont_AirlinesAirplane54 (talk) 16:55, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

:Maybe its because it is stated in the press release, US Airways is a affiliate member of Oneworld (it is currently merging with American Airlines but didn't join Oneworld until March 2014 with the merger approved in December 2013), and Piedmont operates under the brand name US Airways Express (http://www.oneworld.com/news-information/oneworldnews/-/asset_publisher/QtTQ7EuCzxhd/content/us-airways-to-join-oneworld-on-31-march-2014/maximized?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oneworld.com%2Fnews-information%2Foneworldnews%3Fp_p_id%3D101_INSTANCE_QtTQ7EuCzxhd%26p_p_lifecycle%3D0%26p_p_state%3Dnormal%26p_p_mode%3Dview%26p_p_col_id%3Dcolumn-1%26p_p_col_pos%3D2%26p_p_col_count%3D5%26_101_INSTANCE_QtTQ7EuCzxhd_advancedSearch%3Dfalse%26_101_INSTANCE_QtTQ7EuCzxhd_delta%3D20%26p_r_p_564233524_resetCur%3Dfalse%26_101_INSTANCE_QtTQ7EuCzxhd_cur%3D1%26_101_INSTANCE_QtTQ7EuCzxhd_andOperator%3Dtrue). 68.119.73.36 (talk) 17:17, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

:I agree with the IP. Star alliance is only for Air India. {{ping|Airplane54}} you have cited Air India Limited in your defense. Firstly, it is not a source of argument and secondly, you need to understand that AIL is the holding company for Air India, Air India Express and Air India Regional and it is not an airline (Air India is an airline). Per [http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/Air-India-joins-Star-Alliance-flyers-to-benefit-from-today/articleshow/38209011.cms this] and many other sources, there isn't any source which states that AI and its subsidiaries are part of the alliance. If you think otherwise, please provide a source. But AFAIK, it is only Air India that is part of the alliance. — LeoFrank  ^Talk 17:03, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

::Hi AP54, I appreciate your diligent work on this and your sincere intention to bring this article up to date. However, the way WP works (for better or worse) is that our additions to articles are limited to citing reliable secondary sources like books, magazines, newspapers, trade journals etc. (web versions of these items are fine). What WP does not allow is for us to deduce or conclude things based on other information. On WP this is called original research. So even though AIX may be an affiliate of Star Alliance in practice or in 'real life' WP rules don't consider it true or notable until its been clearly stated in a reliable source. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 17:06, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

:::Air India Regional shares the same booking engine as Air India while Air India Express does not. Air India Regional's website opens inside the main Air India Website while Air India Express has its own dedicated site. Silkair describes itself as a "regional wing of Singapore airlines", similar to Air india Regional. We don't have proper proof yet, as i understand Air India Regional becomes an affiliate while Air India Express does not. Trinidade (talk) 17:10, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

::::Agree with Trinidade. CD might be affiliated along with AI since CD is the regional wing of AI. — LeoFrank  ^Talk 17:14, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

:::::So, is MI a Star Alliance affiliate also since it is a regional wing of SQ? 68.119.73.36 (talk) 17:22, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

::::::Being a subsidiary of an airline that is part of an alliance does not automatically make the subsidiary a member of that alliance. As always, reliable sources should be provided.--Jetstreamer {{sup|Talk}} 18:07, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

:::::::Agreed. Subsidiaries normally join some time later as they will be official sources stating this. We just need to find some source stating that AI Express subsidiary is an affiliate member of Star Alliance. However, Star Alliance website only lists its full members not affiliates/subsidiaries so how do we know if the subsidiary is a affiliate member of Star? 68.119.73.36 (talk) 18:20, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

{{od}}

I guess I will list only air india regional as an affiliate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Airplane54 (talk • contribs) 23:14, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

:{{ping|Airplane54}} Please wait till the discussion is over. — LeoFrank  ^Talk 03:57, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

I don't come here that often, but I will present the information I have. I understand that not everyone has access to Global Distribution System, but since it is not that hard to get (KVS Tool and ExpertFlyer are the easiest to get), I don't consider this WP:OR (just like journal articles that have restricted viewership). As such, neither AI flights operated by 9I not SQ flights operated by MI are covered by Star Alliance's fare products, and therefore neither 9I nor MI should be consider *A affiliate. IX is out of the question I think, as it does not even have code-share with AI and operates completely independently of AI.

{{collapsetop|Raw data}}

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• RULES DISPLAY ** TAX MAY APPLY

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14 YRWSPCL 2183 Q - - - ¥ ¥10¥ 12M¥R

FCL: YRWSPCL TRF: 346 RULE: ALH9 BK: Q

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{{collapsebottom}}

Ernestnywang (talk) 07:50, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

The discussion is now over. We have decided that neither Air India Express or Air India a Regional are Star Alliance affiliates as a user provided proof. We can go ahead and make those changes. 68.119.73.36 (talk) 16:12, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

:Thank you!Ernestnywang (talk) 16:16, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

::Please don't make unilateral proclamations. The discussion is not over and the raw data provided above has no use on WP per its guidelines WP:RS that require reliable secondary sources. Furthermore this discussion concerns Air India Express and any consensus reached here should not be applied to any other airlines or article topics on WP. Every WP article topic is given due consideration on its own talk page.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:01, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

:::Agree with Keithbob. The discussion is not over. An uninvolved admin should close this discussion with the result. — LeoFrank  ^Talk 04:37, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

:::We are talking about a yes / no fact. This is like citing a country's GDP or population, etc. Primary source is the perfectly fine in this case. I regret that the database cannot be accessed for free. Unlike Oneworld, Star Alliance does not have affiliate list online. However, the information I provided is the best available at this point.Ernestnywang (talk) 10:08, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

::::Until we have a reliable secondary source (book, news or magazine article, report in an industry journal etc.) that says that Air India Express is a Star Alliance affiliate then that claim should not be made in the article. That claim has been challenged by multiple editors and according to WP:BURDEN the editor supporting the claim bears the burden to provide a reliable source (see WP:RS) and citation to support it.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 13:18, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

:::::Sure! Mind you I'm saying it is NOT a Star Alliance affiliate and provided source that supports it is NOT. Ernestnywang (talk) 13:31, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

::::::I understand. I don't have an opinion on this issue one way or the other. I just want to ensure that WP policies and guidelines are followed.Thanks for your help! 28px-- — Keithbob • Talk • 14:51, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

{{Substituted comment|length=74|lastedit=20100522052324|comment=i dont oppose the merge as air india express is a part a air india company}}

Substituted at 06:53, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

CBG17, I do not understand why you feel a table is necessary only because this is a large airline. Bearing in mind that prose is preferred to tables per MOS:TABLES (a Wikipedia policy), I think prose is preferable in this situation because there is only one aircraft type and only one cabin class. A table with one row and three pieces of information isn't really a table, so I feel it is unnecessary. Please consider. — Sunnya343✈ (háblame • my work) 01:10, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

:Sorry hadnt seen this message but I changed it back to remove the table, not really needed for only one entry. MilborneOne (talk) 09:28, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

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I am proposing a merge between the article of List of Air India Express destinations into this article because i believe that the article is short enough to qualify to be incorporated into this article, given it showed that Air India Express had served 46 destinations which is less than 50, i believe that it is reasonable to be incorporated into this article Metrosfan (talk) 12:54, 25 October 2024 (UTC)