Talk:Alternative for Germany#rfc 5AD0D0C

The party supports Israel and has a jewish member interest group within its party structure. 2003:DA:C74E:2400:8CF9:F575:B0C5:DA8F (talk) 22:21, 7 April 2025 (UTC)

:I actually agree with this, I will remove the category and take a look at adding any appropriate categories. Zyxrq (talk) 08:53, 12 April 2025 (UTC)

:While I agree they aren't antisemitic, AfD is more neutral on Israel these days. Even had neutrality on the Wahlomat. JohannTheFactGerman (talk) 20:36, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

:I disagree with this idea, there are certainly perceived anti-semitic elements to at least some significant members of the party. According to [https://www.timesofisrael.com/german-party-calls-for-end-to-ritual-slaughter/], the party supported calls to ban some Jewish religious rituals, in addition [https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-741853] states that members of the party were criticized for alleged antisemitism by Dani Dayan, chair of the Yad Vashem. Several party leaders, including Björn Höcke, who gave a speech calling a Holocaust memorial a "monument of shame", ([https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/afd-geht-nach-umstrittener-rede-auf-distanz-zu-hoecke-14686499.html]) have also been criticized as possible antisemites. If the party isn't antisemitic, they still would be significant in the topic of Antisemitism in Germany due to these allegations. -Samoht27 (talk) 21:31, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

::While I don't agree that the AfD are antisemitic, I agree that due to certain examples like Höcke, they'd be part of the antisemitism conversation. However, I would also point out that someone can be against the German "guilt culture" while not being against Jewish people. Höcke's statement is less about Jews and more about Germany being the only nation to take historical responsibility to such a far extent, while other nations ignore their past atrocities. Nonetheless, it makes sense to me to keep the antisemitism section. JohannTheFactGerman (talk) 21:45, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

According to politicohttps://www.politico.eu/article/germany-conservatives-boycott-far-right-rethink-afd-cdu-friedrich-merz-spd/ "Lawmakers from the incoming chancellor’s CDU party signal an end to the “firewall” that saw mainstream politicians refuse to work with extreme groups for decades." It's to note this is something we should keep a eye on and add into the Wikipedia article if or when needed. Zyxrq (talk) 08:51, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

BBC article "[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy6zk9wkrdo AfD classified as extreme-right by German intelligence]". -- Cdjp1 (talk) 21:26, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

:This classification is based on a report coming from a highly corrupted, biased, political driven agency and is hardly neutral nor objective. Also this report has not been officially released to the public nor dealt with in court. An office for "protection of the constitution" which spies on political opponents does not exist in any other western democracy besides Austria and should be a shame for Germany. 2003:DA:C735:F600:6C0F:A1D2:EFAA:5828 (talk) 03:41, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

The AfD also has racist, anti-feminist, neo-fascist, islamophobic, revanchist and revisionist tendencies 2A02:8388:1AC7:7380:B92E:76C:59A3:FF2A (talk) 18:22, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

It may well be, as long as it's sourced to independent and third party reliable sources. But as I noted in edit summary (1), it's too specific for the lead, and in e-s (2) it is not mentioned in the article body (see WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY). As such, emphasizing it being "mainstream" is verging on non-neutral. And per policy the it is User:Keeper of Albion's responsibility to seek a consensus for its incluson here, on the talk page. Fortuna, Imperatrix Mundi 13:32, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

:Indeed. The judgement of any individual editor that a party is "mainstream" is original research; if sources describe AfD as mainstream, let's see them. That they are now monitored as an extremist group would seem to suggest that they aren't mainstream. 331dot (talk) 13:38, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

::Why would that suggest they’re not mainstream? The Labour Party is the second political party in British history after the fascist British National Party to be investigated for racism. Are they also not mainstream?

::Are you really suggesting that the second-largest party in the Bundestag — a party that received more than 10 million votes at the 2025 German federal election, and which is listed in second place on that very article — is in fact not mainstream? Where would that leave it, exactly? As a fringe party? Keeper of Albion (talk) 13:43, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

:::It doesn't matter what you or I think, what matters is what reliable sources say. 331dot (talk) 13:50, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

::::https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/02/24/afd-german-election-weidel-opposition-mainstream/

::::The AfD Is Now Germany’s Mainstream Skellyret (talk) 20:28, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::That's only the headline saying it, not the article. See WP:HEADLINE. --Hob Gadling (talk) 08:50, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::Brother the article itself doesn't explicitly say that the party is mainstream but it quite obviously implies that it is (and has already said it explicitly in the headline) if you read the article. It's just silly to deny that the AfD is mainstream atp. Skellyret (talk) 09:25, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::The majority of Germans is still aware that we tried that thing before ninety years ago and it failed spectacularly. No, "Nazis are not stupid assholes" is not "mainstream" here by any measure. The wording in the text does not go as far as using the word, and there is no need to shift the meaning by adopting wording from headlines which {{tq|may be overstated or lack context, and sometimes contain exaggerations or sensationalized claims}}. --Hob Gadling (talk) 06:14, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Lmao ok sure bro whatever you say Skellyret (talk) 06:53, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::The source doesn't explicitly use the word "mainstream" in its text, but the meaning is very clearly reflected in the last sentence before the paywall kicks in: {{tq|It is now Germany’s second-strongest party; the largest opposition party in the Bundestag; the favored party of the working class; the no. 1 party in Germany’s eastern states; a darling of the new U.S. administration; and it also boasts representation in the regional legislatures of all but one German state and in the EU parliament, too, where it is buttressed by like-minded allies.}}

::::::::I would oppose the usage of "mainstream" as well though, because that would imply acceptance by other parties in governing form, which is specifically not the case and well-sourced ("Brandmauer", etc.). Honestly, I would say to ditch the "mainstream" word altogether in the lede; the current revision would work just as well as without that word. Mystic Cornball (talk) 23:05, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Is the presumption, it is not mainstream? Halbared (talk) 13:52, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

::::We shouldn't say they are or if they're not, unless sources discuss it one way or the other. 331dot (talk) 13:53, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

{{edit semi-protected|Alternative for Germany|answered=yes}}

At the end of Paragraph 5 of the section 'Ideology and platform' just above the subsection 'Ideological factions' There is a typo, with an unattached c. Please change the sentence from "In 2025, the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution c officially classified AfD as a "confirmed right-wing extremist endeavor,"" to "In 2025, the Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution officially classified AfD as a "confirmed right-wing extremist endeavor,"" TheWorldBooker (talk) 02:41, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:Done. --Hob Gadling (talk) 07:29, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

{{edit semi-protected|Alternative for Germany|answered=yes}}

Hard facts24 (talk) 23:06, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

I just wanted to add they are a neo nazi party

:{{Not done}}: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Day Creature (talk) 06:16, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

It's not unusual for a party associated with Germany's Nazi past to be labeled a neo-fascist party. It would be strange if it weren't (or not?). Well, that's exactly what happens on Wikipedia (it's not even mentioned). So I'm proposing a change related to the AfD's rather fascist roots. For starters, neo-fascism is a term that several of the most reliable media outlets have used to describe the party. These include POLITICO,{{Cite web |date=2020-08-31 |title=5 years on from Angela Merkel’s three little words: ‘Wir schaffen das!’ |url=https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-wir-schaffen-das-5-years-on/ |access-date=2025-06-15 |website=POLITICO |language=en-GB |quote=But for others, Merkel’s open-door policy was a betrayal of the German Volk, an emotion the country’s far right seized upon, giving the neo-fascist Alternative for Germany (AfD) a new lease on life.}} Open democracy,{{Cite web |title=Towards a definition of populism |url=https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/towards-definition-of-populism/ |access-date=2025-06-15 |website=openDemocracy |language=en |quote=The most shocking of these came in Germany with the neo-fascist Alternative for Germany winning almost 13% of votes and capturing 92 seats in the Bundestag.}} RBC Ukraine,{{Cite web |title=Who will replace Scholz? Germany’s upcoming elections and their impact on Ukraine |url=https://newsukraine.rbc.ua/analytics/who-will-replace-scholz-a-look-at-germany-1740130052.html |access-date=2025-06-15 |website=RBC-Ukraine |language=en}} Jacobin,{{Cite web |title=Germany’s Anti-Palestinian Stance Is Rooted in Anti-Communism |url=https://jacobin.com/2024/04/germany-anti-palestinian-anti-communism |access-date=2025-06-15 |website=jacobin.com |language=en-US |quote=Today, the neofascist Alternative for Germany party (AfD) can proudly proclaim membership in the mainstream by, among other things, accusing the Left of “extremism” as well as “antisemitism” due to its perceived support for Palestinians.}} Foreign Affairs,{{Cite web |last=Bradford |first=Anu |last2=Kelemen |first2=R. Daniel |last3=Pavone |first3=Tommaso |date=2025-04-21 |title=Europe Could Lose What Makes It Great |url=https://www.foreignaffairs.com/europe/europe-could-lose-what-makes-it-great |access-date=2025-06-15 |website=Foreign Affairs |language=en}} etc. In addition to these media outlets, several articles and books describe the party as neo-fascist. It's a tremendous inconsistency that neo-fascism isn't included in the party's infobox (not according to me, but according to multiple sources).{{Cite journal |last=Glazunova |first=Sofya Bruns |last2=Hurcombe |first2=Axel |last3=Montaña-Niño |first3=Edward |last4=Ximena |first4=Silvia |last5=Coulibaly |first5=Souleymane |last6=Obeid |first6=Abdul Karim |date=2023-12-10 |title=Soft power, sharp power? Exploring RT’s dual role in Russia’s diplomatic toolkit |url=https://doi.org/10.1080/1369118X.2022.2155485 |journal=Information, Communication & Society |volume=26 |issue=16 |pages=3292–3317 |doi=10.1080/1369118X.2022.2155485 |issn=1369-118X |quote=A large number of these spaces positioned themselves on the far right of the German political spectrum: more than one quarter (27) implicitly or explicitly declared their sympathies for the neo-fascist Alternative für Deutschland (AfD)³ party, or even presented as official pages or groups for the members and supporters of local AfD branches; additionally, one supported the earlier far-right Nationaldemokratische Partei Deutschlands⁴ (NPD) party, and three of the four Austrian pages described themselves as local branches of the Islamophobic Pegida⁵ movement.}}{{Cite journal |last=Chaudhary |first=Ajay Singh |date=2017-11-28 |title=In the Court of the Centrist King |url=https://politicalresearch.org/2017/11/28/in-the-court-of-the-centrist-king-emmanuel-macron-and-authoritarian-liberalism |journal=Political Research Associates |language=en |quote=As with the supposedly “boring” political situation in Germany, where the neo-fascist Alternative fur Deutschland party will now be the first Far Right party to enter its parliament since the end of WWII, Macron also represents a rightward trend: a brand of authoritarian liberalism that emboldens the Right, facilitating its political maneuvering, and allowing even small radical right-wing movements outsized influence over national policy.}}{{Cite book |last=Mast |first=Jason L. |url=https://books.google.com.ar/books?id=uox5DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA139&dq=%22fascist+alternative+for+germany%22&hl=es&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&ovdme=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiA_ISMuPKNAxWzr5UCHfSnBUEQ6AF6BAgGEAM#v=onepage&q=%22fascist%20alternative%20for%20germany%22&f=false |title=Politics of Meaning/Meaning of Politics: Cultural Sociology of the 2016 U.S. Presidential Election |last2=Alexander |first2=Jeffrey C. |date=2018-11-12 |publisher=Springer |isbn=978-3-319-95945-0 |language=en}}{{Cite book |last=Byrne |first=David |url=https://books.google.com.ar/books?id=cXwZEQAAQBAJ&pg=PT124&dq=%22fascist+alternative+for+germany%22&hl=es&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&ovdme=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiA_ISMuPKNAxWzr5UCHfSnBUEQ6AF6BAgHEAM#v=onepage&q=%22fascist%20alternative%20for%20germany%22&f=false |title=Global Crises: Complexity Based Research and Practice for Social Transformation |last2=Callaghan |first2=Gill |last3=Uprichard |first3=Emma |date=2025-03-28 |publisher=Policy Press |isbn=978-1-4473-7085-7 |language=en}}{{Cite book |last=Pérez-Escolar |first=Marta |url=https://books.google.com.ar/books?id=bH08EAAAQBAJ&pg=RA1-PA2011&dq=%22fascist+afd%22&hl=es&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&ovdme=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjj37mXufKNAxX1pZUCHTDCJrYQ6AF6BAgJEAM#v=onepage&q=%22fascist%20afd%22&f=false |title=Hate Speech and Polarization in Participatory Society |last2=Noguera-Vivo |first2=José Manuel |date=2021-09-30 |publisher=Routledge |isbn=978-1-000-46288-3 |language=en}}{{Cite journal |last=Bösch |first=Marcus |date=2023 |title=Alternative TikTok Tactics: How the German Right-Wing Populist Party AfD Plays the Platform |url=https://dialnet.unirioja.es/servlet/articulo?codigo=10028033 |journal=Fast Politics |publisher=Springer Nature Singapore |pages=149–167 |isbn=978-981-99-5110-9}}{{Cite book |last=Hediger |first=Vinzenz |url=https://contrust.uni-frankfurt.de/files/2025/03/ConTrust_WorkingPaper_Hediger_10.pdf |title=Trust and Specatorship |date=March 2025 |publisher=Goethe University Frankfurt am Main |edition=10 |series=ConTrust Working Paper |quote=Elon Musk, owner of twitter/X and a naturalized South African, used his power and reach to endorse the neo-fascist AfD party in the run-up to the 2025 federal election, an unprecedented third-party interference in national electoral politics in a Western liberal democracy from a purported ally (but different from Russian interference in European elections or US interference in Central and Latin America only in terms of its open nature and brazenness).}}{{Cite book |last=Wall |first=John |url=https://books.google.com.ar/books?id=d69FEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA49&dq=%22neofascist+afd%22&hl=es&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&ovdme=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj4l7PCvPKNAxXBr5UCHS42NRUQ6AF6BAgGEAM#v=onepage&q&f=false |title=Give Children the Vote: On Democratizing Democracy |date=2021-10-21 |publisher=Bloomsbury Publishing |isbn=978-1-350-19630-8 |language=en}}{{Cite journal |last=Roché Guerrero |first=Katia Gisett |last2=Alonso Valle |first2=Hayla Massiel |date=2023 |title=The rise of the ultra-right and neo-fascism in Europe in the 21st century |url=https://dialnet.unirioja.es/servlet/articulo?codigo=9857032 |journal=Perspectiva austral |volume=1 |issue=0 |pages=13 |issn=3008-8771}}{{Cite book |title=Dealing with the Past: Perspectives from Latin America, South Africa and Germany |date=December 6, 2021 |isbn=978-3-7489-2352-7 |editor-last=Louis |editor-first=Tatjana |location=Baden-Baden |quote=This could be of interest, especially in view of current debateson neo-Nazi structures and/or the electoral successes of the right-wingor even neo-fascist AfD (Alternative für Deutschland) in the former GDR. |editor-last2=Molope |editor-first2=Mokgadi |editor-last3=Peters |editor-first3=Stefan}}{{Cite web |title=Neofaschismus auf dem Vormarsch. Themen, Strategien und Netzwerke der AfD in Hamburg |url=https://www.gew-hamburg.de/themen/aktiv-gegen-rechts/2025-01/neofaschismus-auf-dem-vormarsch-themen-strategien-und-netzwerke |access-date=2025-06-15 |website=GEW Hamburg}} Others use similar labels such as proto-fascist, crypto-fascist, or near-fascist. The Independent for example describes it as [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/2024-biggest-election-year-in-history-b2473461.html| near-fascist]. 2800:2502:9:381F:52B7:A004:2CBB:67CD (talk) 14:29, 15 June 2025 (UTC)