Talk:Arab citizens of Israel#indigenous

Why is the section making a counterclaim against discrimination allegations included, especially when it mostly relies upon the quote of one Arab man? This seems like an unnecessarily argumentative section, and turns Wikipedia into the very propaganda machine it was intended to combat. ConnallES (talk) 14:50, 15 April 2025 (UTC)

{{Edit extended-protected|Arab citizens of Israel|answered=yes}}

Description of suggested change:

1st paragraph:

"recent surveys indicate that most name "Israeli", "Israeli-Arab", or "Arab" as the most important components of their identity,[12][13][14] reflecting a shift of "Israelization" among the community.[13][15]

sources cited are all Israeli and/or right wing, this statement thus feels quite politicised.

Diff:

{{TextDiff|1=ORIGINAL_TEXT|2=CHANGED_TEXT}} 2607:FA49:1C3E:3500:C57E:A2A6:17B2:CC33 (talk) 16:42, 18 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hi you! Please tell us what exactly you would like us to write, and what are your sources. Friendly, Lova Falk (talk) 07:25, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

:File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 21:32, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

{{Edit extended-protected|answered=yes}}

Description of suggested change: Hello, please change "'Israeli Arabs'" in the first line of the section "Identification as Palestinian" to only "Israeli Arabs", as otherwise the link loops back to the very same page now that there was a merger. Sorry if this is formatted incorrectly, please let me know!

Diff:

{{TextDiff|1="Israeli Arabs"|2="Israel Arabs"}} Pigter (talk) 20:21, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

:{{y}} Done. Thanks for the request! 🌳 Balsam Cottonwood (talk) ♰ 10:12, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

::Thank you for performing the edit! Pigter (talk) 20:37, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

:::No problem. Once you have made at least 500 edits, your account will be extended-confirmed and you will be able to edit pages like this yourelf. (That's not the only requirement for being extended-confirmed. You also need to have an account that is at least 30 days old, but you already have that.) 🌳 Balsam Cottonwood (talk) ✝ 21:05, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Yep! I'm on my way there slowly but surely. Pigter (talk) 14:29, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

{{requested move/dated|Israeli Arabs}}

:Arab citizens of Israel → {{no redirect|Israeli Arabs}} – Clear common name, per Google hits. Also per consistency with Israeli Jews – not Jewish citizens of Israel. The claim that they mostly identify as "Palestinian citizens of Israel" appears to not really be the case. The current title seems to be primarily used by the Israeli government in an attempt to ostracize its Arab minority. The article itself uses the names interchangeably. 🐔 Chicdat  ^{Bawk to me!} 11:08, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

:Oppose. Firstly, WP:COMMONNAME is determined by prevalence among WP:RS not Google hits which includes anything. Secondly, there's a whole section of the article on this which makes clear that (a) this is a highly politicised issue (b) "Israeli Arab" is the preferred term used by the Israeli establishment and rejected by the "Arab citizens of Israel" i.e. there's an NPOV issue right there (c) academic sources (i.e. the highest quality RS) follow self-identification preferences and not Israeli Arab. DeCausa (talk) 17:19, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

::{{re|DeCausa}} It is by no means a decided fact that these people refer to themselves as "Arab citizens of Israel" rather than Israeli Arabs. You want scholarly sources? Very well. According to Google Scholar, Israeli Arabs is four times more common than Arab citizens of Israel, although Arabs in Israel appears to be a close second. 🐔 Chicdat  ^{Bawk to me!} 19:32, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Google Scholar can be almost as misleading as Google. The point is the WP:CONSENSUS version of this article contradicts your point of view. It already makes statements (sourced) about what academia uses and what lacks neutrality. It's kinda pre-empted any move discussion - which is unusual. I agree that "Arab citizens of Israel" is questionable but I think the replacement is more likely to be "Palestinian citizen of Israel" rather than "Israeli Arab". This is what Human Rights Watch says: {{tq|Terminology regarding Israel's Arab citizens is highly politicised. Increasingly, individuals are rejecting the term "Israeli Arab", which is used by the Israeli government, in favour of Palestinian Arab".}}([https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Second_Class/0UBl1X5YdzMC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Terminology+regarding+Israel+s+Arab+citizens+is+highly+politicized.+Increasingly,+individuals+are+rejecting+the+term+Israeli+Arab,+which+is+used+by+the+Israeli+government,+in+favour+of+Palestinian+Arab&printsec=frontcover HRW "Second Class: Discrimination against Palestinian Arab Children in Israel's Schools, p.8]) I think you may have strayed into a minefield. DeCausa (talk) 19:56, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

::::This article details increasingly more recent polls saying that these people identify as Israeli first, Arab second, Palestinian third. Human Rights Watch has been described as anti-Israel, so can hardly be a neutral source on the conflict. My so-called "point of view" is entirely separate from what I advocate for on Wikipedia. For instance, I supported moving Israel–Hamas war to Gaza war. Regardless, the WP:CONSENSUS version of this article is neutral, and follows RSs. I am merely proposing that the article title follows RS as well. 🐔 Chicdat  ^{Bawk to me!} 20:14, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::I don't understand the scare quotes around your point of view, the use of "so-called" or what your views on the Gaza war (which I have no knowledge of/interest in) have got to do with this. You have made perfectly clear what your point of view is on this name change and your point of view contradicts the sourced content of this article. Have you actually read it? I think I have nothing more to add to this - I have made my oppose perfectly clear. Let others chime in. DeCausa (talk) 20:29, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

:Support, Israeli Arabs is the most commonly used and recognizable term in reliable English-language sources. [https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Israeli+Arabs%2CArab+citizens+of+Israel%2CPalestinian+citizens+of+Israel%2CPalestinian+Israelis%2CArab+Israelis&year_start=1947&year_end=2022&case_insensitive=true&corpus=en&smoothing=3 According to Google Books Ngram Viewer], Israeli Arabs appears significantly more often than alternatives like Arab citizens of Israel, Palestinian citizens of Israel, Palestinian Israelis, or Arab Israelis. WP:COMMONNAME suggests that the name most frequently used in reliable sources, not necessarily the most politically precise or self-identifying label, should be used. While terminology around this demographic is, understandably so, often sensitive and politicized, Israeli Arabs remains the clearest and most concise term. The current title is longer, less common in sources, and arguably no more neutral. The article explains the complexity of identity and labeling in the lead and body text. But, the title should reflect what readers are most likely to search and what reliable sources most often use. 2018rebel 20:21, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

• Stong oppose, AFAIK; many, if not most of :Arab citizens of Israel consider the term "Israeli Arabs" as insulting or demeaning, Huldra (talk) 23:14, 4 June 2025 (UTC)
• Oppose, Arab and Israeli are two contradictory terms. Thepharoah17 (talk) 08:52, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

::No, they're not. If someone lives in Israel and is Jewish by matrilineal descent, but all other ancestors are Arabic, they speak Arabic and they are Muslim, would you call that person "Israeli" or "Arab", or neither? I'd call them both. LachlanA (talk) 06:14, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

• Strongly opppose, "Arab Israeli" is a highly contentious term that many Arab citizens of Israel find offensive. According to WP:NPOVNAME, a non-neutral but common name must be the common name in use, and this is not the case for the term "Arab Israeli." DeCausa (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 16:26, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

The Christian denominations aren’t correct. I’m going to change it according to the article text i.e. I’m just going to put Orthodox and Eastern Catholic. Apparently, it’s cited to a Hebrew source that I can’t read so I’m just going to go ahead and change it. Thepharoah17 (talk) 08:11, 6 June 2025 (UTC)