Talk:Automatic scorer

I worked for Brunswick from 1972 through 1978 as an Electrical Engineer developing the Automatic Scorer. I removed the citation request and the reference tag since I am very familiar with the subject and would be considered "the expert." I still have electronic schematics that are dated 1973 and 1974 which I would be glad to furnish by e-mail to anyone that requests them. I was in direct contact with the top executives in Brunswick during this time. I helped install the first Automatic Scorers ever installed throughout the United States. Since I was in the development stages of the Automatic Scorer I am very familiar with the dates. If you need further on this I believe I can furnish, if I knew exactly the request.--Doug ^talk 18:39, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

:Wikipedia can't rely on the personal testimony of editors. The kinds of sources articles need are outlined at Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:Reliable sources. This article doesn't have them. I won't replace the tag at the moment, but it's fully warranted. --Akhilleus (talk) 19:02, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I did add two additional references. Do you still need additional references? What specifically do you need a reference for? If I knew what you were doubting, then perhaps I can zoom in on this and get a reference for it?--Doug ^talk 19:09, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

:All articles need references. The kinds of references needed are outlined at the Wikipedia pages linked above. The 10-K form and patent notice are not appropriate sources; at best, they're primary sources, and Wikipedia is supposed to be based on secondary sources. Bowlingmuseum.com is not a reliable source. If there's a book or magazine article that talks about the design of automatic scoring systems and their impact on bowling, that would be an ideal source. --Akhilleus (talk) 19:13, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

• I'll look for such a reference and add it when I find it.--Doug ^talk 19:34, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
• Just found such a reference as you are speaking of and added that. Will keep looking and add references as I find them.--Doug ^talk 20:20, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Doug, you added another link to a patent. This is not the kind of source the article needs, as I already said above. --Akhilleus (talk) 20:25, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

There are several methods used in detecting pinfall. A mid-80s Brunswick design used an oscillating laser as part of the detection system. There are also ultrasonic systems. Most systems today use a CCD camera and some software to detect pinfall. An 80s AMF design had targets you placed at the 7-pin spot on the left lane and the 10-pin spot of the right lane, while the deck was otherwise clear, and then you would adjust the camera's aim with some screws based on some LEDs on the side. Another required and oscilloscope to adjust. Many newer systems can be adjusted by changing some settings in software. I, unfortunately, have no sources other than personal experience with bowling equipment. --Coderjoe (talk) 18:25, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

:Attn: 75.5.236.167 - see your Talk page. Thanks.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 19:13, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

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{{Talk:Automatic scorer/GA1}}

I'm not sure how difficult it would be to find sources on this subject, but it is something I am personally quite curious about and I would've loved it if this article had answers for it. Automatic scoring screens often feature ridiculous/absurd animations. I found at least one recent source that confirms that much: [https://mashable.com/article/bowling-alley-strike-meme-animation/] (also [https://stayhipp.com/internet/memes/bowling-alley-screen-memes/] if it's an RS?). I am very curious where this pattern originated, who creates these animations, and why they are always like that. Is there a chance this article could cover that? ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 15:19, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

This article is part of Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/20210315 and the Good article (GA) drive to reassess and potentially delist over 200 GAs that might contain copyright and other problems. An AN discussion closed with consensus to delist this group of articles en masse, unless a reviewer opens an independent review and can vouch for/verify content of all sources. Please review Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/February 2023 for further information about the GA status of this article, the timeline and process for delisting, and suggestions for improvements. Questions or comments can be made at the project talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:36, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

{{u|Wasted Time R}}, one of the frequent issues found in DC's work is that he took text from one source, but cited it to another. Are you able to verify this text:

• The Automatic Scorer digital computer was mathematically accurate, however the detection system at the pinsetter mechanism sometimes reported the wrong number of pins knocked down. The computer could be corrected manually for this as well as handicap figures added and late arriving bowlers tallied. The automatic scoring is directly connected to the foul detection unit so that foul line violations are automatically scored.

to [https://www.newspapers.com/clip/55273814/herald-and-review/ this source]? I've frequently found that content shows up in another source, sometimes copy-paste. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:46, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

:{{reply|SandyGeorgia}} That source supports most of that, but a couple of implementation details – wrong scores from the system being due to reporting failures at the pinsetter mechanism and foul line violations being scored via a connection to the foul detection unit. I looked through the existing sources in the article and did not see these discussed. In these cases, I don't think they are due to copyvio from other sources but rather DC was in part leaning on personal knowledge (he is an engineer who worked on automatic scorer systems in the 1970s). And these implementation explanations make sense to me, so I've annotated the article with a couple of comments to this effect. I don't think they should put the GA status in peril (see WP:GACR and WP:GACRNOT, it's a different world from FAC/FAR), but if necessary, I can keep looking or take them out. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:35, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

::Not to worry; just wanted to make sure you were aware that he largely either made stuff up, misrepresented sources, or mis-attached citations, so you have to thoroughly comb over every bit of text. Now that the bot run is done, I'm returning my focus to work on the CCI, as I'm sure you've got this one :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:39, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

{{Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Automatic scorer/1}}