Talk:Bedin I

Member of the Local group at 10 Mpc? LOL Mike — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.77.113.121 (talk) 11:09, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Dear PhilipTerryGraham, given that I'm not a Wikipedia formatting specialist, I'm a specialist in dwarf galaxies (let me keep my anonymity with a generic Mike).

Declaring that this galaxy is "a member of the local group", would mean that we should rewrite decades of study ... The same Wikipedia article [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Group] expresses well and correctly the knowledge to about. An object like Bedin I at about 10Mpc may never have had any involvement with the galaxies of the group and, frankly, it is not even as special as some releases say. Just read the original paper on MNRAS to catch the doubts. For example it is ancient, of course, but like so many other dwarf spheroidal (indeed it is the norm). Is it really "the most isolated galaxy"? There are many things to discuss about it. In any case, the fact that it is prospectively aligned with the globular cluster (very close to the Milky Way), does not promote an object in the Local Group. In other words, it is only a background galaxy of as many as 30 million light years!

About the objects of the Local Group, again recently - here I am also sibylline - the Donatiello I dwarf galaxy was discovered. This is really a candidate of the Local Group at just 3 Mpc (10 million light-years), although peripheral .

About this interesting object, just as old, but above all close (about 120 ° in the list of the closest to the Milky Way) has not written anything ... because it was discovered by an amateur! Here the press release: http://www.iac.es/divulgacion.php?op1=16&id=1486&lang=en Being practical, can you deal with it? Thank you. Mike — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.32.16.18 (talk) 10:51, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

:{{Reply to|176.32.16.18}} Hey there, Mike! [https://gizmodo.com/astronomers-accidentally-discover-a-hidden-galaxy-right-1832262574?IR=T This Gizmodo article] was cited in the “Characteristics” section that Bedin I is a member of the Local Group; Luigi Bedin, the discoverer, even explicitly states that it is a member of the Local Group in that citation, saying “{{xtd|Had the galaxy been 10 times further away, it would have been much harder to detect, [...] It would’ve been outside our Local Group.}}” This ultimately led to Bedin I being described as such here. [https://www.spacetelescope.org/news/heic1903/ An article] written for the European Space Agency’s Hubble website described Bedin I as “{{xtd|possibly the most isolated small dwarf galaxy discovered to date}}”, and thus was cited for the claim of it being one of the most isolated dwarf galaxies known. – PhilipTerryGraham (talk · articles · reviews) 15:07, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

OMG. I read the front page, thought, "no way is this a member of the local group if it's 10Mpc away and associated with another non-Local Group Spiral Galaxy." I went to read the Talk page. Yes! Somebody who knows something has pointed it out. But. The response is that you can't point things out unless you learn a bunch about Wikipedia-specific commenting formats.

Wikipedia is in trouble if people who know things aren't able to point out problems and have them acted on without first going through learning even a small amount of gratuitous extra process.

I just edited the page myself, and took out the reference to the Local Group. Fortunately, that seems to have worked. I hope it sticks.

(I am not a specialist in dwarf galaxies like Mike, but I am a professional astronomer.)

Rknop (talk) 14:40, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

:{{Reply to|Rknop}} It seems a contradiction has arisen here, as Luigi Bedin himself has described the galaxy as part of the Local Group, which is why it was described as such here. This is less a problem about Wikipedia and more about professional astronomers saying things contrary to one another, and editors such as myself being caught up in the confusion... – PhilipTerryGraham (talk · articles · reviews) 15:07, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

::{{Reply to|PhilipTerryGraham}} Where does Bedin say it's in the local group? The MNRAS paper doesn't say that. It does say it's a member of the "local universe", but that's not the same thing. "Local universe" is a more vague term than local group. The Local Group is the group of galaxies associated with the Milky Way and the Andromeda Galaxy, plus a few other small galaxies that are all within a couple Mpc of those two primary galaxies (and the Triangulum Galaxy, if you want to consider that one a big galaxy as well). The "local universe" refers to the Universe as it is today, and depending on usage can include anything within several million to even several hundreds of millions of light years. Rknop (talk) 15:12, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

:::{{Reply to|Rknop}} [https://gizmodo.com/astronomers-accidentally-discover-a-hidden-galaxy-right-1832262574?IR=T This Gizmodo article] was used to cite the claim of the galaxy being in the Local Group in the “Characteristics” section of the article. The author writes “{{xtd|At 30 million light-years away, it’s considered part of our Local Group of galaxies.}}” and Bedin is quoted as saying “{{xtd|Had the galaxy been 10 times further away, it would have been much harder to detect, [...] It would’ve been outside our Local Group.}}” – PhilipTerryGraham (talk · articles · reviews) 15:20, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

::::{{Reply to|PhilipTerryGraham}} Ah, OK. That's actually not a quote from Bedin, and the author of that Gizmodo article (George Dvorsky) is wrong. [https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/astronomers-accidentally-discover-a-nearby-galaxy-in-a-hubble-image Here is a Bad Astronomy article] (Phil Plait is a very reliable source for all things astronomical) which gets it right: "he astronomers determined that Bedin I is about 28 million light years away. That's close, relatively speaking, though well outside the Local Group of galaxies which holds our Milky Way, Andromeda, and a couple of dozen other galaxies." (Although Phil isn't fully right here; there are more than a couple of dozen known galaxies in the Local Group nowadays. Because these dwarf spheroidal galaixes are so dim and have such low surface brightness, we keep finding new ones in big surveys.) Rknop (talk) 15:24, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

:::::{{Reply to|Rknop}} The article literally says “{{xtd|said Bedin}}”, however, and Plait’s article has already been used to cite various passages. – PhilipTerryGraham (talk · articles · reviews) 15:33, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

To the person who reviews this article under the good article criteria, I'd like to state my preference that each point you make about the article be numbered and distinguished using coloured text, with templates such as {{tl|xt}} or {{tl|!xt}}. This way, I can reference which numbered points I am attending to in my edit summaries, and our replies to each point on the review can be distinguished from the topic/point itself. I believe this would make things much easier and better streamlined for the both of us! See Talk:Planetary Missions Program Office/GA1 and Talk:Music of Rocket League/GA1 for how this can be done! Thanks for understanding! :) – PhilipTerryGraham (talk · articles · reviews) 02:25, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

{{Talk:Bedin I/GA1}}