Talk:Bella Hadid#rfctag

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Death threats and the Gaza war

This information [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bella_Hadid&diff=prev&oldid=1290904680 was removed] with the following edit summary: "never got consensus for these topics - long edit-war since 3 Feb'24".

{{quote|She participated in the Gaza war protests and called Israel's actions in the Gaza Strip "genocide."{{cite news |title=Adidas drops Bella Hadid from campaign referencing 1972 Munich Olympics |url=https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/19/adidas-drops-bella-hadid-from-campaign-referencing-1972-munich-olympics |work=Al Jazeera |date=July 19, 2024}} Hadid stated that she and her family have received death threats for their pro-Palestinian stance, saying: "I've been sent hundreds of death threats daily, my phone number has been leaked, and my family has felt to be in danger. But I can not be silenced any longer. Fear is not an option."{{cite news |last1=Zhan |first1=Jennifer |title=Bella Hadid Says Palestine ‘Cannot Afford Our Silence’ |url=https://www.vulture.com/2023/10/bella-hadid-palestine-israel-statement.html |work=Vulture |date=October 26, 2023}} In November 2023, Israeli music duo Ness & Stilla released the single "Harbu Darbu",{{cite news |last1=Fiske |first1=Gavriel |title=Hip-hop war anthem reaches number one in Israel |url=https://www.timesofisrael.com/hip-hop-war-anthem-reaches-number-one-in-israel/ |work=The Times of Israel |date=November 21, 2023 |archive-date=December 2, 2023 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20231202212635/https://www.timesofisrael.com/hip-hop-war-anthem-reaches-number-one-in-israel/ |url-status=live }} which called for her death.{{cite news |last1=Zitser |first1=Joshua |title=Israel's Gen Z is dancing to a war song that celebrates bombing Gaza and names Dua Lipa and Bella Hadid as enemies |url=https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-gen-z-tiktok-harbu-darbu-song-supporting-gaza-bombing-2023-12 |work=Business Insider |date=December 12, 2023}}{{cite news |title=Israel split by song calling for death of Dua Lipa and Bella Hadid |url=https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/israel-split-by-song-calling-for-death-of-dua-lipa-and-bella-hadid-xcb53tppq |work=The Times |date=February 14, 2024}}}}

{{ping|Hipal}}, you never got consensus to delete the information about the death threats and her pro-Palestinian activism. Several editors supported the text about Palestine in some way, you were the only one against it. Furthermore, the situation has evolved since February 2024, and she has participated in several pro-Palestinian protests and called Israeli actions "genocide."{{ping|Jjj1238}}, {{ping|Ïvana}}, {{ping|Super Goku V}}, {{ping|FortunateSons}}, {{ping|Burrobert}}

-- Tobby72 (talk) 21:57, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:I support re-adding the information, it is relevant to the subject. { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 22:02, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

::No new refs since this was last discussed? --Hipal (talk) 22:21, 17 May 2025 (UTC)

:I support an RfC given the situation over the last year. --Super Goku V (talk) 07:26, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

:: We should expand the section on Bella's activism post October 2023. For some reason we stop at her condemnation of Hamas. The leaking of her phone number and subsequent death threats is notable. Our treatment of the cancelled Adidas campaign is missing some context. We call the campaign "controversial" (as did the CNBC source but not the BBC source) and say the reason was "in part due to her Palestinian heritage". However, we don't mention that the sources say that the campaign was dropped after criticism from the Israeli government and the American Jewish Committee. Btw the BBC source mentions that, in May 2024, she said she was "devastated at the loss of the Palestinian people and the lack of empathy coming from the government systems worldwide". This seems as notable as her condemnation of Hamas. Burrobert (talk) 12:51, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

::Yeah, that sounds reasonable, let’s do that FortunateSons (talk) 16:11, 18 May 2025 (UTC)

:::If there are no new refs, then what policy-based arguments does anyone have to change consensus from last year? --Hipal (talk) 14:53, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Which consensus from last year? WP:1AM might be relevant here FortunateSons (talk) 15:11, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::The onus is on those seeking inclusion, which was brought up in those discussions last year. --Hipal (talk) 15:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::I‘m gonna follow the admin advice on the parallel discussion and turn this into an RfC. FortunateSons (talk) 15:20, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

RFC: Death threats and the Gaza war

Is the following or a similar phrasing and sourcing due and appropriate for inclusion:

FortunateSons (talk) 15:23, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

Previous discussions: Talk:Bella_Hadid/Archive_1#Regarding_the_Religion_and_politics_section., Talk:Bella_Hadid/Archive_1#Death_threats_and_the_Israeli-Palestinian_conflict --Hipal (talk) 15:34, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

=Survey=

Yes there is significant non-Event-specific high-quality coverage, and no policy-based reason for exclusion. FortunateSons (talk) 15:34, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
Yes per others and past discussions { [ ( jjj 1238 ) ] } 16:12, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
Yes include, I did not know this, so it has been "undercommunicated",Huldra (talk) 20:51, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
Yes as well-sourced and significant, but I'd get rid of the quotes around "genocide" which aren't necessary as it's only one word and change it to {{xtn|"called Israel's actions in the Gaza Strip a genocide"}}. Additionally, remove the wikilink to Gaza Strip and instead wikilink the word "genocide" to Gaza genocide. Dan Leonard (talk • contribs) 21:25, 19 May 2025 (UTC)
:Regarding the first half, I am not seeing anywhere in the source where that is a quotation. Am I missing something? --Super Goku V (talk) 09:31, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
::The Al Jazeera article uses quotation marks around "genocide" but doesn't give enough context for us to do the same (they provide no date or context for the quotation). Since we have the article Gaza genocide I think we are fine treating the genocide as a fact in wikivoice and leave it as a more general statement that she described the events as a genocide. Dan Leonard (talk • contribs) 10:18, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
:::Omitting quote marks around the word would not imply that we are endorsing what she said as a Wikivoice fact. The existence of an article with the title Gaza genocide also does not imply that Wikipedia has concluded that the existence of a Gaza genocide is endorsed as a Wikivoice fact. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:36, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
Comment - it is insufficient. All quotes should have a date attached. Year and month would be good. starship.paint (talk / cont) 05:46, 20 May 2025 (UTC)
Yes per the above votes. -- Tobby72 (talk) 19:17, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

::Here are links to discussions on similar or same topics: Talk:Dua Lipa#Harbu Darbu, Talk:Mia Khalifa#Harbu Darbu and Talk:Gigi Hadid#Death threats and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. -- Tobby72 (talk) 10:51, 25 May 2025 (UTC)

Yes, something along those lines I don't see the issue with including this. However, I would make two comments: I think that dates (rough or possibly precise) should be included for the quotes. Secondly, I am not entirely sure that the statement "Israeli music duo Ness & Stilla released the single "Harbu Darbu", which called for her death" is completely compliant with WP:NPOV and possibly WP:BLP. Three relevant sources are given for this, The times of israel and Business insider describe the duo as calling for retribution against enemies among which Hadid is listed as one (or similar words) [https://www.timesofisrael.com/hip-hop-war-anthem-reaches-number-one-in-israel/] [https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-gen-z-tiktok-harbu-darbu-song-supporting-gaza-bombing-2023-12], while the times describes it as "demanding the killing" [https://www.thetimes.com/world/article/israel-split-by-song-calling-for-death-of-dua-lipa-and-bella-hadid-xcb53tppq]. A review of other sources finds one or two more describing it as calling for her death [https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/harbu-darbu-bella-hadid-dua-lipa-mia-khalifa-b2497225.html], and some others describing it differently [https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-28/ty-article-magazine/.premium/israeli-militaristic-hit-song-urges-troops-to-bomb-gaza-threatens-bella-hadid-dua-lipa/0000018d-4172-d02c-a79f-43fb0c920000][https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/culture/article-778106]. Personally I'd probably change the wording on that to maybe quote the exact words used in the song, or change the wording in some other way to ensure solid compliance with WP:NPOV and WP:BLP. Tristario (talk) 05:16, 22 May 2025 (UTC)
Yes overall: Some changes seem warranted per starship.paint and Tristario, but overall I agree with the wording and sourcing. --Super Goku V (talk) 02:16, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
Yes, in some form. It's a major aspect of her political activism based on coverage and can't reasonably be excluded entirely. If people have objections to the precise wording it can still be workshopped, but total removal isn't appropriate. --Aquillion (talk) 13:43, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
No as a whole, per BLP, NOT, POV, OR. The refs and coverage in them are poor to extremely poor. Combining the information in this manner suggests a narrative not in any of the sources. I think we can make a case for mention of her involvement in protests after the Gaza war, though the coverage is so extremely poor that we have no idea how many protests she participated in nor where. In contrast, we have better sources giving such details for protests we don't mention at all Talk:Bella_Hadid#What_protests_deserve_mention?. The quotes and name-dropping are UNDUE and NOT voilations: treating these inferior sources over better ones is grossly inappropriate. --Hipal (talk) 16:00, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
Yes- (Brought here from RFC/A) I would say that the proposed text contains some notable information, or at least parts of the information from the sourcing that can be verified. Also agree with starship.paint and Tristario changes which seem warranted. MaximusEditor (talk) 20:50, 23 May 2025 (UTC)
Yes. Sourced, non-trivial, neutral - of course it should be included. This is factual and essential information neutrally stated. SilkTork (talk) 00:12, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

=Discussion=

Pings: FortunateSons (talk) 15:26, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

:For most recent discussion: @Burrobert@Hipal@Jjj1238@Super Goku V@Tobby72 FortunateSons (talk) 15:26, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

::@Starship.paint for last discussion, no ping for Ïvana due to inability to participate FortunateSons (talk) 15:29, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

::@The Mountain of Eden, @Sean.hoyland for the Adidas-discussion linked below. FortunateSons (talk) 15:59, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

:::I have a COI for Adidas, so I should probably stay away from that. Although I will take this opportunity to thank the people of Herzo for putting a cigarette machine in the street that saved me in my time of need on a Sunday (probably not there anymore) while being watched with suspicion by a local with a ferocious looking dog. Sean.hoyland (talk) 16:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

::::No worries, though I would like to note that this is largely unrelated to Adidas. :) FortunateSons (talk) 16:23, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

Asking once again, are there any new/better sources since this was last discussed? --Hipal (talk) 15:35, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

:You mean, except the repeated mentions during the Adidas-issue? FortunateSons (talk) 15:42, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

::I have no idea what you're talking about. If there are relevant references or discussions, provide them as I have done. --Hipal (talk) 15:55, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Sorry, I assumed you were aware of discussions you started. FortunateSons (talk) 15:58, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

::::How is that discussion relevant? --Hipal (talk) 17:08, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::Because during that time, there was coverage of her participation at protests, for example by

:::::[https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/wirtschaft/unternehmen/bella-hadid-adidas-antisemitismus-israel-kritik-100.html ZDF]

:::::[https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/menschen/bella-hadid-wegen-unterstuetzung-fuer-palaestinenser-kritisiert-19890926.html FAZ]

:::::and others FortunateSons (talk) 17:18, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::Thank you for identifying some references that had not been brought up in the relevant discussions. --Hipal (talk) 17:22, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Of course. I believe that the other sources linked in that discussion are likely to be sufficiently sustained, and would exclude the ones I linked above under WP:NONENG, but if you think it makes a difference, I don’t mind citing these instead. FortunateSons (talk) 17:29, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Let's get any that you think would help copied here. --Hipal (talk) 17:56, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

{{ping|Tobby72}} You wrote, {{tq|the situation has evolved since February 2024, and she has participated in several pro-Palestinian protests}}. Since we created consensus on the matter in June (you participated in the discussions through May), are there any protests that she participated in since, or other references we should consider? I'm not finding anything beyond reaction to her "Palestine belongs to the Palestinians" Instagram post in February, which doesn't appear to have DUE coverage. --Hipal (talk) 17:19, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

:[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/19/adidas-drops-bella-hadid-from-campaign-referencing-1972-munich-olympics Al Jazeera] – "Hadid has taken part in several pro-Palestinian demonstrations during the war...". There are also several videos on YouTube of Bella Hadid at pro-Palestinian demonstrations. But I don't know how often she has publicly protested or made pro-Palestinian speeches. Do you think the proposed text should be reworded in some way? -- Tobby72 (talk) 19:17, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

::Thanks for responding so quickly.

::This article currently details protests:

Hadid is a long-time supporter of Palestine.{{cite web |last1=Cartwright |first1=Lexie |title=Gigi Hadid addresses Israel, Palestine conflict in lengthy statement |url=https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/celebrity-life/gigi-hadid-addresses-israel-palestine-conflict-in-lengthy-statement/news-story/f5defa29f90af7c50613f6e026f837c6 |website=news.com.au |access-date=June 5, 2024 |date=October 11, 2023}}{{Cite web|url=https://apnews.com/article/bella-hadid-dior-israel-hamas-war-fact-check-aabe93d8f40f0a5a226bd51af36b3343|first=Karena|last=Phan|date=November 8, 2023|title=No, Dior didn't replace Bella Hadid with an Israeli model over her comments on the Israel-Hamas war|publisher=Associated Press}}{{cite news |last1=McGreal |first1=Chris |title=Supermodel Bella Hadid called an ‘Israel hater’ by far-right, pro-settler minister |url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/25/bella-hadid-israel-settlers-itamar-ben-gvir-palestine |work=The Guardian |date=August 25, 2023}} In January 2017, Hadid attended the "No Ban, No Wall" march in New York City, saying in an interview it was her own family history that drove her to participate in the march.{{Cite news|url=http://www.elle.com/fashion/celebrity-style/news/a42682/bella-hadid-protest-interview/|title=Bella Hadid on DKNY and Protesting in New York City|date=February 6, 2017|work=Elle |access-date=March 25, 2017|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20170326052257/http://www.elle.com/fashion/celebrity-style/news/a42682/bella-hadid-protest-interview/|archive-date=March 26, 2017|url-status=live}} In December 2017, Hadid joined protests in London against Trump's decision to move the U.S. embassy in Israel and recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.{{Cite web|title=Bella Hadid Stopped by an Anti-Trump Protest in Red Carpet Gown|url=https://people.com/style/bella-hadid-stopped-by-an-anti-trump-protest-still-dressed-in-her-red-carpet-gown/|access-date=June 18, 2021|website=People |archive-date=May 9, 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210509044132/https://people.com/style/bella-hadid-stopped-by-an-anti-trump-protest-still-dressed-in-her-red-carpet-gown/|url-status=live}} In October 2023, she condemned the Hamas-led attack on Israel.{{cite news |title=Bella Hadid speaks out on Israel terror attack and Palestine airstrikes: 'My heart is bleeding' |url=https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/bella-hadid-speaks-out-palestine-b2436792.html |work=The Independent |date=October 26, 2023}} Hadid and her sister Gigi donated $1 million to Palestinian aid agencies during the Gaza war.{{cite web |last1=Lambert |first1=Guy |title=Bella and Gigi Hadid donate $1m to Palestinian aid agencies |url=https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj772xzl3xdo |publisher=BBC News |access-date=June 4, 2024 |date=June 1, 2024}}

::So we already have in this article more detail than provided in that reference, cited to far better quality references.

::Are there any others we should consider? --Hipal (talk) 19:47, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

:::[https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/07/19/adidas-drops-bella-hadid-from-campaign-over-gaza-controversy_6690554_4.html Le Monde] – "Hadid has taken part in several pro-Palestinian demonstrations during the conflict..." The text is about protests against the war in Gaza. -- Tobby72 (talk) 20:28, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Ref #6 above and https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/17/entertainment/bella-hadid-palestinian-protest-trnd identifies another in New York in 2021.

::::https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-supermodel-bella-hadid-joins-free-palestine-march-in-nyc-2021-5 identifies another in Aug '23.

::::I'm not finding anything after that provide details for any after the war started.

::::So, yes, I think we should include that she attended some Gaza War protests, and the 2021 protest in New York. I was hoping that there would be sources with details comparable to current references so we properly incorporate the information with what we already have, in chronological order. --Hipal (talk) 22:35, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::It seems we agree on the Gaza war protests. You probably still disagree with the inclusion of death threats and the song Harbu Darbu? -- Tobby72 (talk) 12:56, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

Arabic name

There was no reply to the prior comment recorded at {{section link|Talk:Bella Hadid/Archive 1#Arabic name}}. Is there any justification for including the Arabic spelling of her name in the heading of the infobox? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 23:34, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

:After no reply for several days, I removed it. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:06, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

What protests deserve mention?

We've identified two specific protests that she participated in that are not currently mentioned in this article [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ABella_Hadid&diff=1291547536&oldid=1291544847]. The RfC above asks us to consider adding mention that she participated in protests related to the Gaza War though we have no details at all, nor individual coverage. Do we list all the protests then, or should we be selective? Are there more we're overlooking? --Hipal (talk) 18:25, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

:I think the answer is to be selective unless one particular instance has a particularly significant amount of coverage in reliable sources. So it could say "She participated in the Gaza war protests in this time period" to cover multiple instances Tristario (talk) 23:37, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

When are quotes valuable?

In general, we should first be working from summaries within references. Secondly, we can attempt to summarize them ourselves. While there are other times where quotes can be useful, it's tempting and inappropriate to use quotes instead of summaries, or when coverage is so minimal that no summaries exist. --Hipal (talk) 16:03, 23 May 2025 (UTC)

Sources that name-drop

Hadid is very popular, receiving a large amount of press. We need to be careful of NOT problems in choosing sources that mention her. Sources that name-drop Hadid, or bring her up in passing are typically not DUE, and certainly should not treated with coverage similar to what we give to superior references. If a source doesn't demonstrate some impact to Hadid, we shouldn't be using it in most cases. --Hipal (talk) 16:09, 23 May 2025 (UTC)