Talk:Chemical warfare

Why does Poison Gas Redirect Here, that makes no sense what so ever.--The Navigators (talk)-May British Rail Rest in Peace. 04:11, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

:Now goes to Chemical weapon (resolved some time ago). Klbrain (talk) 13:33, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

{{resolved}}

Quote from article: "The offensive use of living organisms (such as anthrax) is considered biological warfare rather than chemical warfare; however, the use of nonliving toxic products produced by living organisms (e.g. toxins such as botulinum toxin, ricin, and saxitoxin) is considered chemical warfare under the provisions of the Chemical Weapons Convention."

Toxins are listed on the Biological Weapons Convention as well. Military doctrine classifies toxins in their biological agent lists. Even though toxins have similarities to chemical agents, they are generally considered biological agents due to production, detection and decontamination.

kddodge

I would like to ask for opinions on making Chemical Weapon Developement/ Experiments a seperate subject. Paragoalie (talk) 15:50, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

"Ironically, at the same time the Bush Administration pressed the Senate to declare war on Iraq, claiming Saddam Hussein was stockpiling those same weapons.[43]" What is the revelence for this quote in relation to Project SHAD? I am concidering deleting it. Paragoalie (talk) 15:55, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Given the subject matter, and some recent, repeated vandalism attempts by unregistered users, do y'all think this page should at least be semi-protected?

Chris Allen (talk) 04:47, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Hello. Mustard agents generally do not corrode skin by producing acid. Sulfur mustards, for example, attack DNA. Unfortunately the table is not editable, but is a template "Chemical warfar/CW table" (in curly braces rather than quotes). Could someone point me to the table so that I can edit it?--Wikimedes (talk) 23:20, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

:From sulfur mustard: "Physiological effects: (Soldier with moderate mustard gas burns sustained during World War I showing characteristic bullae on neck, armpit and hands) Mustard gas has extremely powerful vesicant effects on its victims." Rmhermen (talk) 00:59, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

::Well yes, but mustards do not do this by forming acids. (Chlorine, by contrast, does.) I wanted to remove acid formation from the mechanism.--Wikimedes (talk) 06:08, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

The section "History of Chemical Warfare" should become an independent Wikipedia-Article, because it is to long. Also it needs an elaborated revision and additional subheadlines.--MBelzer (talk) 12:19, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Since the Argentinian use of tear gas in the Falklands is mentioned, shouldn't US use of teargas in Operation Tailwind also be mentioned for consistency? I suspect there may be other cases too, but since I'm no expert on chemical warfare I'll stay out of editing the main page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.123.142.48 (talk) 16:14, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

:Having read our article on Operation Tailwind (and knowing little else about it) it seems that it should be mentioned. Perhaps there should be a separate section in the article for not-normally-lethal chemical agents such as tear gas and agent orange? (Though I see from our article on teargas that it is a prohibited from being used in warfare.)--Wikimedes (talk) 22:27, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

File:Japanese Special Naval Landing Forces in Battle of Shanghai 1937.jpg

File:Pictorial World Vol.13 No.12.jpg.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chemical_warfare&diff=576332048&oldid=576252682 This edit] by User:STSC is problematic.

• [http://desertwar.net/chemical-warfare.html the website] doesn't say that this picture was taken during a Japanese gas attack.
• Peter Harmsen writes in his Shanghai 1937: Stalingrad on the Yangtze, Whether the Japanese actually did use gas in Shanghai area was a matter of debate, and remains in the years after the battle. (Harmsen, pp. 178-179) In short, he says that Chinese side claimed/reported Japanese chemical attacks, Japanese side claimed/reported Chinese chemical attacks.
• This photograph depicts an unit of the Shanghai Special Naval Landing Force (上陸), which was a small garrison and defended the northeastern rim of the Shanghai International Settlement. There is neither reports nor claims on gas attacks by the Shanghai Special Naval Landing Force.
• This photograph was taken in the Chapei front, which includes some parts of Chapei (Zhabei) and Hongkew (Hongkou), during the Battle of Shanghai. There is neither reports nor claims about gas attacks in Chapei front.
• Moreover, this photograph was used as the back cover of a Japanese magazine Pictorial World (『世界画報』,　Sekai Gaho, Vol.13, No.12). The Japanese side which accused Chinese side of using poison gas at the time. If it depicted their own poison gas attack, they couldn't use it.
• According to Ji Xueren (纪学仁/紀學仁, prof. of the PLA Chemical Warfare Command and Engineering Academy),Chinese side claims that the Japanese Imperial Army used chemical weapons (mainly tear gas) during the Battle of Shanghai. Dates, areas and targets that Ji Xueren claims are as follows:

1. 4 October PM 7:00 Shih-hsiang-kung Taoist Temple (施相公廟) near Lo- tien (羅店) against 67th Division
2. 5 October Morning same area
3. 6 October Evening same area
4. 9 October AM 11:00 Tung-chao-chia (東趙家), 3 km southeast of T'ang-ch'iao Station (塘橋站), against 1st Regiment of the 1st Division
5. 15 October Noon Ch'en-chia-hsing (陳家行) against 32nd Division
6. 28 October Ko-chia-t'ou (葛家頭)、Ch'ing-shui-hsien (清水顯) against 4th Division
7. 28 October Ma-chia-chai (馬家宅) against 159th Division

All of places that Chinese claims on Japanese gas attacks during the Battle of Shanghai are far from Chapei front.

• In spite of Japanese official reports on Chinese poison gas attacks during the Battle of Shanghai, whether the Chinese side did use poison gas in Shanghai area was also disputable. But at least it's the fact that the Japanese side, especially frontline troops were afraid of possible Chinese poison gas attacks, because Japanese news papers actually reported the Chinese poison gas attacks this.

• The caption of this photograph in Sino-Japanese war: Records by News Photographers of Japan, U.S., and China is Japanese Naval Landing Force, awaiting attack orders whilst wearing gas masks in anticipation of a potential poison gas attack by the Chinese Army, maintaining the frontlines until the arrival of reinforcements (Chapei, Shanghai. (Sino-Japanese war, [http://postimg.org/image/os96730y5/ p. 38]).

• In conclusion, this photograph doesn't depict a Japanese gas attack. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 04:00, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

::My reply is on here. STSC (talk) 21:30, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

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In History section, the following statement doesn't seem to have any citation basis:

Arsenical smokes were known to the Chinese as far back as c. 1000 BC[5]

The cited publication

Richardt, Andre (2013), CBRN Protection: Managing the Threat of Chemical, Biological, Radioactive and Nuclear Weapons, Germany: Wiley-VCH Verlag & Co., p. 4, {{ISBN|978-3-527-32413-2}}

can be found here - http://www.wiley-vch.de/books/sample/3527324135_c01.pdf

The author, Richard, makes a single line reference to this claim: 'We can date the employment of chemicals as chemical warfare agents (CWAs) from at least 1000 BC when the Chinese used arsenical smokes [1]''.

For this claim Richard references another book: Mayor, A. (2003) Greek Fire, Poison, Arrows and Scorpion Bombs: Biological and Chemical Warfare in the Ancient World

The second book can be found here: http://web.stanford.edu/dept/HPS/GreekFire.pdf

However, in Mayor's book he only has this to say about ancient chemical warfare:

'Chapter 5 introduces the world’s first military commander who was also adept in pharmacology. The general was a witch named Chrysame, who used drugs to cause temporary insanity in the enemy, during the Greek colonization of Ionia in about 1000 BC. Mithridates stands out as a rare example of a general who was also an expert toxicologist; another is Kautilya, a military strategist who was also a scientist, in India at the time of Alexander the Great.''

There's no other reference in the rest of Mayor's book to the Chinese using Arsenical smokes in 1000BC, as Richard claims. Therefore the current statement ( .. 1000 BC when the Chinese used arsenical smokes .. ) seems to have been an invention of Richard which was copied over into Wikipedia. Unless it can be correctly cited it should be removed.

Arul20 (talk) 09:22, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

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The majority of the "History" section, subsections "Ancient Times" to "Industrial Era" appears to contain large portions of text directly copied from [http://www.armageddononline.org/chemical_warfare.php this page on chemical warfare.] I would like to reach a consensus on whether to keep this text or delete the offending sections.

Helmut von Moltke (talk) 00:22, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

:Looks to be them copying us without attribution, not the other way around. Rmhermen (talk) 01:33, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

:: I don't at all mean to contradict you, but out of pure curiosity, what would your rationale be for determining which source is copied from which? Helmut von Moltke (talk) 07:01, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

:::We can go back in the article history and see how the text was added and changed. In this case, several of the lines reused by armageddononline.org were added to our article separately (and re-edited) in November 2004. Rmhermen (talk) 07:34, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

::::{{resolved}} Klbrain (talk) 13:01, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

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{{hat|Block evasion by User:HarveyCarter.}}

I'm not sure why this was removed so I reverted. (81.159.6.246 (talk) 02:06, 26 December 2017 (UTC))

:I assume you are the same person who made [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Allied_intervention_in_the_Russian_Civil_War&diff=prev&oldid=816993949 this comment]? No, painting Churchill as a war criminal is not the purpose of WP. This is WP:SOAP. My very best wishes (talk) 04:34, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

::Churchill was a war criminal, the destruction of Dresden showed that. However his use of chemical weapons in Russia absolutely should be mentioned as it shows how extreme the Allied actions were during the civil war. (DonGibson (talk) 05:38, 26 December 2017 (UTC))

:::You'll need to document these allegations, backed up by scholarly sources; then we can discuss whether or not the article should discuss it, pursuant to WP:WEIGHT. As it stands, there's a single author who claims to have stumbled upon this information upon accessing a classified document. You would at the very least need to find sources in which respected, credentialed individuals affirm the likelihood that the claim has merit. Joefromrandb (talk) 18:54, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

{{hab}}

In the Technology timeline table, there is a mention of the protective device, "Gas mask w/ Whetlerite". Based on a quick search, I can't determine if 'Whetlerite' is a brand name (e.g. Vise-Grips) and should remain capitalized, or a generic name (e.g. locking pliers) which should be in lower-case.

Christopher, Sheridan, OR (talk) 07:31, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

:Looks like lowercase is correct: https://patents.google.com/patent/US2920050 and https://history.army.mil/html/books/010/10-2/CMH_Pub_10-2.pdfRmhermen (talk) 04:04, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Also, considering how controversial this subject is, i would recommend removing it completely and refering to a whole page with this problem (Use of chemical weapons in the Syrian civil war). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:1028:83AA:4576:30C6:4DE1:E1FE:1C54 (talk) 13:44, 19 January 2022 (UTC)