Talk:Conditions comorbid to autism/Archive 1

"Obsessive-compulsive disorder is characterized by recurrent obsessional thoughts or compulsive acts.

[...]

Compulsive acts or rituals are stereotyped behaviours that are repeated again and again. They are not inherently enjoyable, nor do they result in the completion of inherently useful tasks."

I think we should add: in the case of OCD, compulsive acts are used to decrease the anxiety which the obsessions entail. Apokrif 19:42, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

One entry on the page stated baldly that

:: ===Schizophrenia===

::"There is a link between Asperger's and Schizophrenia. [http://lists.becta.org.uk/pipermail/senco-forum/1998-January/000915.html Message on mailing list] maintained by BECTA, message by Elizabeth Farrar, January 11, 1998, accessed August 17, 2006

Now, I had a look at the source and it doesn't say that at all. And even if it did, it wouldn't really be up to scratch (imho) because it's FOAF-stuff on a message board.Garrick92 14:25, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I saw someware on the internat that ther is comorbid Congenital Heart Disease with autism.Can somobody source this?--Pixel ;-) 22:23, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I suggest that these headings should be organized by prevalence. This is fairly wide spread information, or should be. I'll do some research and do some edits unless someone has some alternative suggestions? Sethwoodworth 00:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

There is a mention under the Fragile X syndrome section about ASD. It is not linked and there is no explanation. What is ASD? Sowsearsoup 17:57, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

:It's autism-spectrum disorders (autism and related disorders), I believe. We should fix that acronym so it's more comprehensible - thanks for pointing it out. MastCell ^Talk 18:08, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

The comorbidity rate is all over the place:

• {{PMID|19454962}} : "prevalence estimates vary from as little as 5% to as much as 46%... Recently, there has been interest in the occurrence of epileptiform electroencephalograms (EEGs) even in the absence of epilepsy. Rates as high as 60% have been reported and some investigators propose that these abnormalities may play a causal role in the autism phenotype."
• {{PMID|19006654}} [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2734903/?tool=pubmed] : "Approximately 30% of children with autism have epilepsy [13] and 30% of children with epilepsy, at least those seen in a tertiary epilepsy clinic, have autism [14]."
• {{PMID|18766157}} : "Autism is associated with a high frequency of epileptiform EEG abnormalities (prevalence range 10.3-72.4%) and epilepsy (prevalence range 0-44.5%)."
• {{PMID|18302129}} : "Epilepsy is quite common in autism spectrum disorders. The rate of comorbidity varies between 20-30% of cases, depending upon the age and type of disorder."
• {{PMID|18302128}} : "The rate of epilepsy in autism is higher than in other developmental disorders and estimates point to a frequency range of between 7% and 42%. Between 40% and 47% of autistic children suffer from clinical epilepsy."

From what I've seen, we take the highest and lowest estimates, but a range of 0% to 46% or 47% doesn't give much conclusive data. >.> MichaelExe (talk) 00:41, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

:A diagnosis of epilepsy doesn't require the child to have any developmental capabilities. Whereas ASD must be very hard (and ultimately pointless) to diagnose in a child who is severely developmentally disabled. I guess this makes it very difficult to gauge the prevalence of ASD in that population (where epilepsy is very common). If we quote a range, the range should come from one source IMO. Colin°^Talk 08:00, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

As with Medical conditions related to autism, this article is largely a duplicate of the "Conditions..." article; we do not need 2 articles that describe essentially the same information. Jinkinson talk to me What did he do now? 02:47, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

: I'd actually rather have everything go to that title (Comorbidity in autism spectrum disorders) rather than this title (Conditions comorbid to autism spectrum disorders). But, whatever, we have three articles that need to be one. We can just get it all there and then figure out a better name. I suspect this happened because whatever article we end up with needs to be listed in an autism template, so people realize it exists. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:20, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

:: I've prepped that article to be merged (much of it is outdated, the merge target typically has better info), and see that {{tl|Pervasive developmental disorders}] has this article (Conditions comorbid to autism spectrum disorders) so when I moved content from autism spectrum to Comorbidity in autism spectrum disorders, I created this unnecessary duplicate. I suppose I was trying to dump poorly cited trash :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:04, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

• Support merge. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:05, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

{{done}} SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:33, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

I noticed that there was a page entitled "Medical conditions related to autism," and I think it should be merged with this page since it is shorter than this one and clearly doesn't contain very much information not already present here. Jinkinson talk to me 03:24, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

:Support. I agree with everything. Lova Falk talk 16:13, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

:Support Totally agree dolfrog (talk) 17:46, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

: Support, this one gets merged for sure ... to which article, though not sure. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:18, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

:* On second look, Oppose, and suggest alternate, Redirect to autism spectrum. There is no meaningful content now at Medical conditions related to autism, and there is nothing whatsoever related to comorbidity. The bottom part of the article is about MMR vaccine controversy, which is already covered (and better covered) at Autism spectrum, and the top part of this article is not about comorbid conditions, rather about differential diagnoses (conditions that may mimic), and that, too, is already covered at Autism spectrum. This article is poorly cited, and there is nothing to merge. It should just be redirected to Autism spectrum. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:57, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

{{ul|Jinkinson}}, {{ul|Lova Falk}}, {{ul|Dolfrog}}, where do we stand? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:21, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

:Hi Sandy to be inline with DSM 5 the Autism and Autism spectrum articles need to be merged into a new Autism spectrum disorder article (which currently redirects to Autism spectrum and the various other issues deletedc in DSM 5 need to have their respective articles redirected to the new revised Autism spectrum disorder article. And then the comorbidity of other related issues may begin to make sense, especially with the progress being made regarding genetics dolfrog (talk) 17:59, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

:: {{ul|Dolfrog}}, yes I know all that, but we're talking about what to do with Medical conditions related to autism, which has no content that isn't already covered. I suggested a merge is not needed, only a redirect to autism spectrum (which will become, eventually, autism spectrum disorder). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:34, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

:::Hi Sandy regardless of the current content, the Medical conditions related to autism title which how it will be used in future as a redirect should be redirected at issues comorbid with autism, and not at the eventual new autism spectrum disorders. As research begins to identify the multiple genetic, neurlogical and various other issues that can combine to cause autism spectrum disorders some of these issues may exist as individual issues and/or be considered to exist as comorbid issues. For instance recent research has suggested the FOXP1 may be linked to autism spectrum disorders and the FOXP family of protients already has links with many other conditions dolfrog (talk) 08:03, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

:::: OK, since three of you feel that way, I'll do the redirect, but there is no meaningful content here that isn't covered already. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:19, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

{{done}} SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:23, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

The page currently states there is "a lack of published rigorous data to support the theory that autistic children have more or different GI symptoms than usual" and cites a 2005 analysis of the data. I have since found a decent 2012 study which finds a very strong link between GI problems and Autism: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22119694 Does this supersede by being more recent? or do we stick with the meta-analysis? Wikiditm (talk) 18:16, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Dr. Wakefield's paper has not been withdrew «after a moral panic occurred, due to a misunderstanding that it blamed vaccination», but because it was a scientific fraud. And indeed it did blame vaccination! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.236.71.187 (talk) 07:37, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

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This paragraph is very fuzzy and the paper cited for the first quite bold statement ("Bipolar disorder, or manic-depression, is a highly controversial diagnosis") is actually only referring to pediatric bipolar disorder (and thus the statement taken as is is completely false; bipolar disorder is not a remotely controversial diagnosis if you don't include the "pediatric". Autism is a lifelong disorder, just because it begins in childhood doesn't mean conditions can only be comorbid if they are also diagnosed in childhood. I don't even know where to begin to clean this up, maybe something involving this study?

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00702-004-0115-1?LI=true

Stahlberg, O., Soderstrom, H., Rastam, M. et al. J Neural Transm (2004) 111: 891. https://doi.org/10.1007/s00702-004-0115-1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.112.58.255 (talk) 09:11, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Should autism speaks be used as a source on this site, or should it be replaced with more reliable sources as a known conspiracy site?

Note: 2 of the 3 links appear broken or deleted. The working link does not relate to any conspiracies and seems to contain good information, as it references a real study done by actual scientists (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26052041/), though the article also recommends all autistic people get nutritionists, which is not supported by the study. -- 2001:56A:71BA:6800:E825:5731:1BDC:74A (talk) 13:43, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

There should really be a lot more information on the medical bits. Also, regarding the mention of ADHD, it should be noted that its diagnosis excludes other PDDs, although it is arguably related to the autism spectrum.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.217.126.54 (talk) 21:04, 16 April 2005 (UTC)

The text says that asd and adhd can not be comorbid diagnosis per the dsm iv. is this really true? the only exclusion I see is for pdd not autism per se (though pdd-nos as been described as another spelling for asd's. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.7.163.64 (talk) 06:49, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

: That's what the cited source (Reiersen & Todd 2008, {{PMID|18416666}}) says. Eubulides (talk) 20:06, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

: At at least one point in time, autism, adhd and dyslexia, were considered exclusive. However, there are lots of people walking around with two or more of these diagnoses. -- 2001:56A:71BA:6800:E825:5731:1BDC:74A (talk) 13:48, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Branched-chain keto acid dehydrogenase kinase deficiency presents as autism spectrum disorder, but the number of patients described in literature since its discovery is extremely small. I'm leaving the link here in case someone finds some goods sources. I'm not sure whether it merits inclusion just yet. --CopperKettle (talk) 13:40, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

Because the name of the article is "Conditions comorbid to autism spectrum disorders", it implies that autism is a morbidity, i.e., a disease, which it is not. I am therefore asking that the name of this article be changed to "Conditions co-occurring with autism spectrum disorders" to better reflect reality and cause less offense. 80.193.98.150 (talk) 11:55, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

:Hi you! "Conditions comorbid to autism" refer to the medical use of the word autism, not to the word as describing neurodiversity. Therefore, comorbid is correct.Lova Falk (talk) 07:38, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

I removed this section on Reduced NMDA receptor function. It does not fit well in the article about comorbid conditions with ASD, because it does not describe a distinct medical or psychiatric condition that co-occurs with autism. Instead, it discusses a potential neurobiological mechanism underlying ASD itself. The text describes how NMDA receptor dysfunction may contribute to autism symptoms, but it does not identify a separate, diagnosable disorder that occurs alongside ASD. The section belongs in an article about the neurobiology of autism, rather than one on comorbid conditions. This section would fit better in a neurobiological section, something like a section or article about the neurochemical basis of autism, or pathophysiology of autism, where different neurotransmitter and receptor abnormalities are discussed in relation to autism. I don't know if this exists right now at WP.

Anyway, below is the original text in case a better place for it can be found.

===Reduced NMDA‐receptor function===

Reduced NMDA receptor function has been linked to reduced social interactions, locomotor hyperactivity, self-injury, prepulse inhibition (PPI) deficits, and sensory hypersensitivity, among others. Results suggest that NMDA dysregulation could contribute to core ASD symptoms.{{cite journal | vauthors = Gandal MJ, Anderson RL, Billingslea EN, Carlson GC, Roberts TP, Siegel SJ | title = Mice with reduced NMDA receptor expression: more consistent with autism than schizophrenia? | journal = Genes, Brain and Behavior | volume = 11 | issue = 6 | pages = 740–750 | date = August 2012 | pmid = 22726567 | pmc = 3808979 | doi = 10.1111/j.1601-183X.2012.00816.x }}

Lova Falk (talk) 07:36, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

:I now pasted the section here: Mechanism_of_autism#Reduced_NMDA‐receptor_function Lova Falk (talk) 07:44, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

Also this section cut out of this article and will be added to Mechanism_of_autism. The reason is that while some individuals with autism exhibit folate metabolism abnormalities, this association does not necessarily classify CFD as a comorbid condition of autism. The way it is described "many children with ASD and cerebral folate deficiency have marked improvements in their clinical status when taking folinic acid", it is rather a cause of autism, or a subgroup within the group of people with autism, than a comorbidity. Lova Falk (talk) 11:16, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

:PS I will give this page a rest now and see what you all will do with those edits that I made. Later I'll come back and scrutinise this page some more. Lova Falk (talk) 11:22, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

This section says brain fog is... and then: "Brain fog can be present in patients with autism spectrum disorder (ASD). Its prevalence, however, remains unknown.[31]"

I checked source 31. In the introduction it says: " Brain “fog” characterizes patients with many neuroimmune diseases [...] as well as those with autism spectrum disorders (ASDs) and “minimal cognitive impairment,” which is now considered the early clinical presentation of Alzheimer's disease (AD) (Drzezga et al., 2011)." The link is to an article about Alzheimer's, not ASD. In the same article is the sentence: "Children with ASDs are also characterized by brain “fog” (Rossignol and Frye, 2012)" If I look at the Rossignol and Frye article, the term brain fog or brain "fog" is nowhere to be found. Instead, the article discusses cognitive dysfunction in ASD, linking cognitive dysfunction to oxidative stress, mitochondrial dysfunction, and immune dysregulation. {{small|I am quite shocked that Drzezga's article was approved...}} So, no evidence for brain fog as a comorbid condition to ASD. Lova Falk (talk) 10:04, 10 March 2025 (UTC)