Talk:Craft beer/Archive 1

You guys don't have a clue about craft beer ... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.31.251.164 (talk • contribs)

Hey, now .. . someone has made a well-intentioned start on a topic that's of interest to me, and I'd think to you too, based on your post. I'd agree, though that this could use expansion and editing, although 'craft beer' is a loose enough term that there's sure to be a wide range of interpretations of what it means. I'd certainly like to see this page developed further, and I'll try to take some time to make some contributions myself in the near future. --Shorn again 20:56, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

OK, so I made an edit. I removed the Brew Guild link as it seemed to place disproportionate importance on one local brewing supply store. If anyone feels strongly it should be included, I would propose a page for brewing supply retailers. I also external-linked the Brewer's Association website to the reference made to it. I tried to massage the language a bit to promote NPOV and better flow, and added some general history. It still needs a lot of work, and particularly more citations and facts. Something about the percent of the marker craft beer represents would be good. And what the heck are the 'rules of alternating proprietorship' anyhow and who follows them? --Shorn again 02:15, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

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They are related and the terms are almost/sometimes are interchangeable BalfourCentre 13:20, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Craft beer deserves a page in its own right. its only in the US where microbrewery and craft beer are interchangeable, in the UK for example we don't define "craft" in terms of a maximum number of hectalitres the brewery produces.

Py0alb (talk) 13:20, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

:I agree, see Talk:Microbrewery. Wbm1058 (talk) 19:45, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

: I also agree. "Craft beer" should have its own section, and could be expanded greatly in order to cover craft beer in different countries. Prof. Mc (talk) 16:56, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

:I also agree. It may come as a surprise to American readers, but ”craft beer" is a highly divisive subject among UK beer enthusiasts, with many seeing it as little more than a meaningless marketing concept. Few UK microbreweries use the term even now, while big companies like Greene King use it to describe undistinguished mass market session bitters, and I've even seen it used to describe keg lager in some PR material. The existing Craft Beer section doesn't cover this at all. --Ef80 (talk) 14:39, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

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This appears to be a very US centric article with a few minor mentions of Canada and Australia.

The UK has a large micro brewing industry, I am not well versed enough to write anything about it but I know they're everywhere in England. It is something I'm very jealous about.

Micro brewing isn't big at all over here in Ireland, we're stuck with the big brand stuff, Diageo or Bass brand pubs to a very large extent, but there's still a few.

http://www.whitewaterbrewery.com/ is my local oneConorflan (talk) 23:50, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

:I agree; unless one makes the argument the term itself is US-specific, "microbrewery" could cover all the tiny, regional breweries (fast disappearing) throughout the UK, Germany, Belgium, Czech Republic, etc.--Chimino (talk) 03:55, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

I added the image for the Welsh microbrewery - just to make the point about national traditions and although I don't know much about the industry, as a beer drinker I can say that the supermarkets in England have a range of specialist microbrewery products - a couple within reach of me have guided tours etc. Some are staying ahead of the recession. WyrdLight (talk) 09:20, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

I've added some more British angles and history in the hope this balances the noted US dominance in the article, Regards, Chocolate Gibbon, July 2011

I added some facts for Germany. If the language is not proper, please correct. -- Lberges (talk) 20:50, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

It is awful to read five or more units of measure: gal, impgal, barrels, litres, hectolitres.

Is there any endeavour to improve that? -- Lberges (talk) 20:50, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

What kind of terrible unit is hls? After 15 minutes of googling with barely any relevant results, it turns out is hectolitres. This is not an approved SI unit. Moreover 5,000 hcl is a terrible way to try and express an amount; akin to saying 5 thousand hundreds. 500,000L or 500 KL or 0.5ML. We need this article to be written to normal people, not some unit that you cannot understand unless you happen to be in the brewery industry. Agree with Lberges -- somebody needs to fix this byo (talk)

microbrewery and brewery

These articles are about the same thing. The difference is industry semantics which is primarily recognized in the United States. A brewery makes lots and lots of beer and is owned by a diverse company. The other makes... well, amount of beer ranging from very little to lots of beer and is independently owned.

In the article brewery, there are already brief explanations on the different types of breweries. The information in microbrewery should be merged with brewery. This will more accurately describe the global transformation of the brewing industry in the late 20th/early 21st Centuries. DFS (talk) 18:57, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

The term "craft brewer", as used in the US, is constantly changing to allow the Boston Beer Company to remain a "craft brewer", regardless of how much beer they brew, and how lousy it is. It's become a marketing term with no real stable meaning. No matter how big and bloated they get, no matter how much beer they and their commercial contract brewers pump out, they still get to be called a "craft brewer". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.68.134.1 (talk) 21:35, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

:At any rate, the distinction is notable and appears in many sources, all that changes are the details of how "small" the amount of beer is. A "craft brewery" is a particular type of brewery that brews a more limited amount of beer and is mostly independently owned. In the U.S. anyway, most craft breweries that aren't Sam Adams make a lot less beer than the macro breweries. There can be a section at brewery offering a summary of the concept, but it's clearly noteworthy enough for a dedicated article.--Cúchullain ^t/c 21:33, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

At a time when Wikipedia is overwhelmed with a lengthy proposed mergers backlog, many of which are obvious content forks crying out for someone to just do it rather than tag it for someone else to take care of, I find this type of merger proposal and activity annoying. Craft beer was an independent article, albeit unsourced except for an inline link to the Brewers Association website. Rather than cleaning it up, it was [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Craft_beer&diff=next&oldid=152524329 redirected] to Microbrewery 08:44, 4 October 2007, and content was merged [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Microbrewery&diff=prev&oldid=162202086 with this edit]. Then it was redirected to Microbrewery#Craft beer. The implication being that only microbreweries produce "craft beer." Alas, as yet Wiktionary doesn't define the term, but Merriam-Webster says it's [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/craft%20beer "a specialty beer produced in limited quantities,"] while a {{no redirect|microbrew}} is [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/microbrew a beer produced by a microbrewery.] Wiktionary agrees. There was a microbrew article, but it was merged to microbrewery. "A specialty beer produced in limited quantities" doesn't seem to rule out homebrewing, as "many people enjoy entering homebrew competitions, sometimes referred to as craft brewing." Nor would it seem to rule out a large brewery brewing "craft beer," provided the quantities were sufficiently "limited." Nonetheless, craft beer remained a sub-section of Microbrewery until [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Microbrewery&diff=next&oldid=440258792 this edit] which renamed the section to Craft brewer, removed most of the merged content under the claim that it was original research, and changed the definition from {{quotation|1=Craft beer is an American term also common in Canada and New Zealand to refer to beer brewed without adjuncts such as rice or corn, for distinction and flavor rather than mass appeal.[http://www.brewersassociation.org/pages/business-tools/craft-brewing-statistics/craft-brewer-defined Craft Brewer Defined]}} to {{quotation|1=Craft brewer is a term coined by the American Brewers Association to replace microbrewery; it gives a definition of "small, independent and traditional", with small defined as an "annual production of 6 million barrels of beer or less".}}{{reflist}}

In my opinion this second definition could also be considered as original research, and may be no better than the first:

• This is the definition of "American craft brewer," according to the Brewers Association
• The source does not claim that the Brewers Association coined the term. Did they try to register it as a trademark? I doubt it.
• A less Americanocentric definition should be located and used to supplement this definition, preferably a definition not provided by a trade association, but rather by by common usage.

The effect of changing the section from a discussion of craft beer to craft brewer after merging was deletion by redirection, as effectively Wikipedia no longer has an article on craft beer as Microbrewery, where {{no redirect|craft beer}} redirects, avoids mention of the topic. This situation needs fixed. – Wbm1058 (talk) 20:34, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

See Talk:Craft beer, someone else has the same idea as me. Wbm1058 (talk) 19:42, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

::I support this proposal. At the very least we need a short referenced article about what craft beer is and how it has become popular across the world in the last 5 year particularly. Do you want to start it? Py0alb (talk) 13:53, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

"Craft beer has fat-burning properties if you drink enough of it."

: ...Um, I'm going to remove that until we get a source. Skiendog (talk) 15:12, 4 March 2016 (UTC)