Talk:Cultural impact of Michael Jackson#Identity

The Reagan picture isn't relevant to his cultural impact, and is used on countless other articles related to MJ. This picture fits on the article Philanthropy of Michael Jackson, but I don't get how it's relevant to his overall cultural impact. --InPursuitOfAMorePerfectUnion (talk) 12:08, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

:I disagree that it's not relevant to his cultural impact. MJ is seen not just meeting with the then-president and first lady of the US, but at a White House event where he's clearly being presented as an individual in a media event. That is reflective of a cultural standing beyond, say, record sales or other indications of (mere) mass popularity.

:The image you want to see added still has a place in the article, imo, but not at the expense of the 1984 White House pic. And that's not to say that another alternative might not be better at the top of the article or that MJ with the Regans is the ideal choice; but White House '84 is – so far – the one that best indicates to readers that Jackson's commercial success had cultural influence outside of pop, and therefore that the article has some sort of identity outside of the artist being super-popular. JG66 (talk) 12:40, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

:I think a picture that has Jackson himself, engaging with people/culture, is more relevant than a picture of a platinum record that Jackson possibly never even saw. The article is not about Thriller, or even particularly about its sales figures. It's about Jackson himself, and him meeting Reagan illustrates something about him beyond his record sales. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 16:11, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

::You both have a good point! Thank you for clearing this up. --InPursuitOfAMorePerfectUnion (talk) 17:36, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

I have added some sculptures. I think they belong here. Sorry about it looking ugly for now. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 12:50, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

If anyone wants to chip in and expand on the section by highlighting his impact in other countries it would be greatly appreciated. So far someone has already tackled Africa, Brazil and i have contributed with Czech Republic, Romania and India. However there's still a lot of countries like China, Japan, France, Chile, Germany, The UK, Korea that are missing, along with the Middle East. Never17 (talk) 00:03, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

:I will be adding stuff but i'm editing first on my sandbox. For global impact I will try to gather specific quotes and data that show how impactful he was in that country, culturally. One mention though, lots of the detail of that section talk about how particular countries/people mourned his passing - Can i suggest that part be put in another article Death_of_Michael_Jackson#Public_reaction which specifically has a section on international reaction of his death? And we can just add a "See also" template directly below Global impact header. Let me know. and thanks. Raolae (talk) 21:37, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

::That would be a good idea, i support that. Never17 (talk) 23:18, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

You guys have done a fantastic job working on this page, it's much appreciated. Never17 (talk) 05:22, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Jackson for decades was generally regarded by those within the media and the music industry as the greatest entertainer of all time {{Cite news |last=Williams |first=Richard |date=2009-06-25 |title=For all Michael Jackson's flaws he was the greatest entertainer of his age |url=https://www.theguardian.com/music/2009/jun/26/michael-jackson-greatest-entertainer |access-date=2025-01-16 |work=The Guardian |language=en-GB |issn=0261-3077}} {{Cite web |last=Bennett |first=Jessica |date=2024-12-31 |title=The Greatest Live Performer Of Every Decade, 1950-Present |url=https://www.vibe.com/lists/greatest-live-performer-every-decade-1950-present/ |access-date=2025-01-16 |website=VIBE.com |language=en-US |quote=Widely considered the greatest performer of all time, Michael Jackson}}{{Cite web |date=2024-08-29 |title=‘The greatest artist who ever lived’: Michael Jackson leaves impact 15 years after death |url=https://www.yahoo.com/news/greatest-artist-ever-lived-michael-195539668.html |access-date=2025-01-16 |website=Yahoo News |language=en-US}}{{Cite web |last=Villarreal |first=Yvonne |date=2009-06-29 |title=REMEMBERING MICHAEL JACKSON |url=https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2009-jun-29-et-jackson-tribute29-story.html |access-date=2025-01-16 |website=Los Angeles Times |language=en-US |quote=the greatest entertainer of all time.}}{{Cite news |last=Satariano |first=Adam |date=2009-07-08 |title=Family, Fans Mourn Jackson at Site of Final Rehearsal |url=https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2009-07-08/family-fans-mourn-jackson-at-site-of-final-rehearsal |access-date=2025-01-16 |work=Bloomberg.com |language=en |quote=“the greatest entertainer that ever lived.”}}. This has continued to intensify today which has resulted in today's popular musicians or the artists of the past such as [https://www.revolt.tv/article/2023-09-05/325221/50-cent-continues-to-compare-chris-brown-to-michael-jackson BTS], [https://www.timescolonist.com/entertainment/is-taylor-swift-the-biggest-pop-star-since-michael-jackson-4626841 Taylor Swift], [https://www.aol.com/drake-vs-michael-jackson-numbers-193615296.html#! Drake], [https://variety.com/2019/music/opinion/has-beyonce-overtaken-michael-jackson-most-important-black-artist-1203225597/ Beyonce], [https://www.revolt.tv/article/2023-09-05/325221/50-cent-continues-to-compare-chris-brown-to-michael-jackson Chris Brown], [https://www.republicworld.com/entertainment/remember-when-justin-bieber-compared-his-music-approach-to-that-of-michael-jackson Justin Bieber], [https://www.gq.com/story/kanye-west-vs-michael-jackson-whos-the-real-king-of-pop Kanye], [https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/prince-rivalry-michael-jackson-thriller-purple-rain-1235074357/ Prince], [https://www.sportskeeda.com/basketball/news-that-s-outrageous-jalen-rose-drawing-usher-michael-jackson-comparisons-draws-vehement-criticism-fans Usher], [https://www.forbes.com/sites/cheriehu/2016/01/31/kendrick-lamar-versus-michael-jackson-a-tale-of-two-kings/ Kendrick Lamar] for example spawning comparisons based on how they measure up to Michael Jackson which really hammers home his musical legacy in the same fashion as how Michael Jordan gets compared within the media / public to other basketball players, generally the comparisons will always be between MJ and another artist, rather than comparing them to someone else.

Therefore due to all of the above, i decided it seems appropriate to mention Jackson's stature as the "greatest entertainer of all time". However if some editors believe that this is redundant due to a pre-existing award from Guinness World Records which labelled him the most successful artist of all time then we can probably highlight that award instead. Never17 (talk) 23:39, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

The article is now generally too long based on Wikipedia guidelines. I believe a separate article on the section detailing Michael Jackson’s influence on other performers/musicians was available before but was ultimately deleted. Does anyone know why it was deleted? Can we reopen a page on that? Raolae (talk) 05:13, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

:I fixed it the section by adding subsections. hopefully this is okay. Raolae (talk) 00:45, 26 January 2025 (UTC)

:Looking at the archive, back then the page was at risk of being deleted twice by a user who nominated it for such, insisting that Jackson's influence was only based on how he influenced other performers and that this page existed just because a page for Elvis Presley and Madonna's Impact existed, whereas several such pages for music artists exist now. The former refers to the then-deleted page, which was only a list of people who claimed to be influenced by Jackson and no other supporting information, resulting in its deletion.

:If I were to make one suggestion, I would suggest limiting the section to performers that are the most verifiable and noteworthy, because I doubt a proposal for creating a separate page dedicated to people talking about how Jackson influenced them would be considered notable without it becoming WP:LISTCRUFT or worse invoke WP:FANPAGE, which is also a problem I see with this page currently, which was one of the reasons it was nominated for deletion twice back then. For now, focus solely on writing about "how" Michael Jackson impacted culture with verifiable sources and without original research. Simply listing every artist who has mentioned Jackson in some way doesn't seem encyclopedic and several pages based on that concept have been deleted several times beforehand. LaughinElf (talk) 01:25, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

::I'm not in favor of creating a separate list for artists who were influenced by others. This topic has been well-discussed, and as a result, several lists with similar titles and nature have been deleted.

::Secondly, this doesn't make much difference, but the editor who nominated the page was an Elvis fan, and for your information, the page also went through a DRV after two deletion requests and still exists for a reason.

::Currently, we have [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Cultural_impact_by_musician 17 articles] covering the cultural impact of musicians. Interestingly, only two of these articles are nominated for deletion, and both happen to be about black artists.

:: I'm not invoking WP:OTHERSTUFFEXIST, but I've noticed a disparity in criticism. Similar criticisms are rarely levied against articles on white artists, even when those articles extensively cover their success and fame instead of their Cultural impact.

::

::This may be due to the fact that, as some studies suggest, content on Wikipedia suffers from the bias of its editors – [who are] mainly technically inclined, English-speaking, white-collar men living in majority-Christian, developed countries in the Northern hemisphere.https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wikipedia-gender-racial-bias_n_7054550--TheWikiholic (talk) 14:54, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

:How about we make a separate article about the Global impact of Michael Jackson, then that way on that article we have detailed overviews of his impact in various countries. That would shorten up the article Never17 (talk) 18:04, 30 January 2025 (UTC)

{{reftalk}}

Nas - [https://hiphopnc.com/5727966/tbt-nas-explains-the-influence-michael-jackson-had-over-his-record/]

Biggie Smalls [https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/why-the-notorious-b-i-g-almost-cried-when-working-with-michael-jackson.html/]

Prince [https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/prince-rivalry-michael-jackson-thriller-purple-rain-1235074357/]

Never17 (talk) 00:17, 8 February 2025 (UTC)