Talk:Dog#skeletal variation

{{Template:Did you know nominations/Dog (2nd nomination)}}

{{u|Traumnovelle}}, why change "female dog" to "bitch"?[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dog&diff=1254016459&oldid=1253989587] Does that not go against MOS:JARGON, "{{tq|Some topics are necessarily technical: however, editors should seek to write articles accessible to the greatest possible number of readers. Minimize the use of jargon}}? Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 02:40, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

:Bitch is not a jargon term, it is a term in common parlance. I don't see how it can qualify as jargon but sobriquet doesn't. Traumnovelle (talk) 03:02, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

:I work in the veterinary field, and "Bitch" is the correct veterinary term for a female dog. It is not derogatory when used in this context. Mediatech492 (talk) 07:23, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

:I do not consider "bitch" jargon any more than, for example, "bull" or "cow", or "stallion" or "mare". It is not as common only because of its secondary vulgar meaning - much like "ass" often is avoided even when speaking of that animal. That said, I have no strong opinion on whether to use "bitch" or "female dog" throughout the article; the two are interchangeable. Jtrevor99 (talk) 12:12, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

::The specific terminology of the veterinary field is jargon, by the very definition of the term. It would be highly unusual for someone outside the veterinary field to refer to a female dog as a bitch, unless making a joke or trying to get a rise out of someone. 68.71.31.171 (talk) 01:24, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

:::It is not jargon. The term is not just used in the veterinary field: it is used in everyday vernacular by many English-speaking groups outside the US (to refer to the animal), not to mention breeders, kennels, dog shows, conservation departments, farmers, and many other specialized groups. It cannot be "jargon" when used throughout the populace. Frankly, I'm surprised anyone would try to argue that it is jargon: I've never seen anyone try to claim a term referring to the male or female of any species is jargon, except here. So let's be honest: it's likely this is a straw man argument, at least for some, who wish to remove the term because of its alternative derogatory meaning. And, I see no need to use it when it's a synonym for "female dog". But there's no compelling reason to avoid it either. Jtrevor99 (talk) 03:24, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

::::Again, the specific terminology of "specialized groups" is, by definition, jargon. 68.71.31.171 (talk) 14:00, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

:::::Again, the specific terminology of "everyday vernacular" is, by definition, not jargon. Jtrevor99 (talk) 14:50, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

:::::If you read the comment that I was responding to, you will see that the word was "everyday vernacular" used by "specialized groups," not the public. 142.115.60.108 (talk) 00:57, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

::::::I WROTE that comment. Read it again. You misunderstood it. Jtrevor99 (talk) 01:03, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

:::Is ewe or mare jargon? I would argue most of these terms are less commonly recognised (esp. in an urban population) but are still used in the relevant Wikipedia article instead of the queer 'females'. Traumnovelle (talk) 04:01, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

:::Just because ignorant people use a word as a derogatory term does not negate that fact that the word is correct when used in the proper context. The word "cock" has profane usage, but that does not change the fact that it means a male chicken. It also has a different, non-profane meaning in reference to firearms. One could go on with terms like "ass", "pussy" and "Jesus Christ" which have both profane and non-profane usage. Mediatech492 (talk) 05:19, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

::::Insulting members of the public by calling them "ignorant people" doesn't help your case. Wikipedia is written for the public. That's why we don't use specialized language, such as the language you use as a member of the veterinary profession. Stop looking down your nose at those of us who don't have veterinary training. 68.71.31.171 (talk) 14:00, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

:::::Interesting that you are concerned about the "public" when your comments are US-centric. The term is much more commonly used outside of the US, to refer to the female animal. Jtrevor99 (talk) 14:51, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

:::::Interesting that you would jump to the conclusion that my comments are US-centric. I am not American, none of my ancestors are American, and I have never lived in the United States. Regardless, the rule here is that we use a form of English understandable throughout the English speaking world, even in the United States. 142.115.60.108 (talk) 00:57, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

:Just to note Horse and Sheep naturally introduce the respective terms and then use them. It would be easy to include into the lead as either terminology or naturally introduced. Traumnovelle (talk) 19:08, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

::Yes, But there are kids (idk on a computer/iPad) On Wikipedia, and if they like dogs they would search dog on the Wikipedia thingy. maybe they would click on the Talk page. or if they don't click on it both ways will they see Bitch (used for dog). these are developing minds, so they could say bitch and their parents/guardian will think its the swear word. I'm not saying you should remove it (This was 6 months ago) but still, add a disclaimer (I'm too lazy to do it) IdioticBlender (talk) 22:49, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

:::There are much worse words for a child to learn on Wikipedia than 'bitch'. See also WP:NODISCLAIMER. Traumnovelle (talk) 22:55, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Such as?? IdioticBlender (talk) 22:57, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::List of ethnic slurs is probably a good place to start. Traumnovelle (talk) 23:03, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::Yes. But Also Kids can be exposed to Nudity, and Sex Bots, Bots, UTTP, And The N Word, A bypass of youtube for it, (NIGA or NIGG) (not trying to be racist). I clearly Understand what you mean now, and I understand That kids can be exposed to stuff like Only Fans (talk) 23:08, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

The very beginning of the intro says "The dog (Canis familiaris or Canis lupus familiaris) is...."

From what I can tell, both from this article's Taxonomy section and from the Integrated Taxonomic Information System (ITIS; itis.gov), Canis lupus familiaris is the accepted classification. Some experts disagree, preferring Canis familiaris, but apparently the accepted one is Canis lupus familiaris. Shouldn't the latter come first at the beginning of the intro? DKMell (talk) 04:09, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

:ITIS actually lists both forms. I can see that by looking at the taxonbar at the bottom of the page. From there I can also see that a majority of the more well respected taxa databases seem to prefer C. familiaris to C. l. familiaris. So no, I can't support this suggestion. - UtherSRG (talk) 12:22, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

::Agreed. The article once cited Dogs: Their Fossil Relatives and Evolutionary History by the widely respected paleontologists Wang & Tedford, with both classifications given on Page 1. Unfortunately, it is no longer referenced in this article. 14.2.200.245 (talk) 11:06, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

This article says the domestication of dogs began around 14,000 years ago. The article on the domestication of dogs says it happened over 30,000 years ago. Which is it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.241.240.42 (talk) 03:12, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

:From this article: "{{tq|Dogs were domesticated from wolves over 14,000 years ago by hunter-gatherers, before the development of agriculture. The remains of the Bonn–Oberkassel dog, buried alongside humans between 14,000 and 15,000 years ago, are the earliest to be conclusively identified as a domesticated dog. Genetic studies show that dogs likely diverged from wolves between 27,000 and 40,000 years ago.}}" Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 05:10, 7 March 2025 (UTC)

{{Edit semi-protected|Dog|answered=yes}}

I would like to add a couple things about dog breeds! Dgcatcowchicken (talk) 18:25, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

:File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Annh07 (talk) 18:32, 20 February 2025 (UTC)