Talk:Dragonmead#Non-encyclopedic content

This page is not unambiguously promotional, because it isn't. It describes the history of this particular Craft brewery in a manner that is entirely consistent with other similar articles. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:09, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

:I have already removed the CSD template, along with what I perceive to be the elements that inspired its addition. There is a reasonable amount of coverage available on this subject, [https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=dragonmead+brewery&tbm=nws], which suggests that it meets the notability requirements. However, future expansion should be performed in a neutral manner. Yunshui ^雲_水 13:11, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

::Please restore the prior talk page which was deleted. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:34, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

:::I've restored the talkpage history, and the WikiProject banners above. Yunshui ^雲_水 13:39, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

::::They've won lots of awards in beer competitions, including gold medals at the World Beer Cup. At least three of their beers are being bottled and distributed regionally and are exceptional: Under the Kilt (Wee Heavy); Final Abolution; and Crown Jewels. This article has been here for 9 years, and you thought there was urgency in getting rid of it? 9 years; 16 hours? Hmmm. The brewery is also noteworthy for having developed proprietary processes that enable it to put out 75 beers (from time to time) out of a very small brewery, and this has been written about in printed media. Many of the assistant brewers have gone on to work in other Michigan microbreweries; Dragonmead has been in the forefront and helped seed a lot of craft brewing here. (I don't have a WP:RS for that, and personal knowledge doesn't qualify, I know. But it's still true. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:55, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

:::::I'm more than a little concerned by the addition of the company's logo; according to the file page it's available under a Free Art licence, but it would be a very unusual step for a company to un-trademark their own logo, and I can find no evidence that they have ever done so. I suggest we remove the image from the page until it's copyright status is established, or move it back to Wikipedia from Commons and add a fair use rationale. For the time being I'm going to take it out as a probable copyright violation. Yunshui ^雲_水 14:38, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

::::::Is there a way for them to grant a limited license? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:42, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

:::::::No - they either release it for free reuse under one of the appropriate licences, or they retain their rights (in which case we can still prepare a fair use case). There's no process for releasing something "only for use on Wikipedia" or "only for non-commercial use" that would enable it to be used on Commons. Yunshui ^雲_水 14:51, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

So it has to be fair use or not at all. Can't imagine they would give up their trademark. Thanks. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:57, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

:Wouldn't have thought so. I'd suggest the following course of action:

:# nominate the existing file (at Commons) for deletion as a copyvio

:# upload a new version (to Wikipedia, not Commons) with an appropriate fair use rational

:# use the new version in the article

:Not sure if I'll have time this afternoon (I'm on a bit of a dip-in, dip-out spree, so have little time to do anything that's more than a few clicks); if you want to take care of it, feel free. Yunshui ^雲_水 15:06, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

::I've never done that before. And right now real life beckons. So if you could do that, it would be appreciated. p.s., I'm having trouble with a link in one of the references. Please take a spy-by. Cheers! 7&6=thirteen (☎)

:::You were missing a colon (the punctuation mark; I'm optimistically assuming that your digestive system is still intact). I'll see if I can sort the image out on Monday, I doubt I'll have time before that. Yunshui ^雲_水 15:29, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

::::Apparently I did... Yunshui ^雲_水 15:49, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Latitude: 42.490908 | Longitude: -83.060446 Altitude 189 meters. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:05, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

{{Template:Did you know nominations/Dragonmead}}

The article has a section titled "Facilities", about some unspecified bar. Unless some relevance to the subject of the article can be provided, I believe it should be deleted. Maproom (talk) 19:06, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

This [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dragonmead&diff=649540320&oldid=649528004 series of edits] effectively reverts my previous edit, where I removed content for it not being encyclopedic. No explanation has been given for this. I'm seeking consensus for whether this material, which I would contend is not pertinent to the notability of this brewery, should or should not be included. --Dweller (talk) 15:04, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

:I believe that the material you removed should have no place in an encyclopedia. It might be appropriate in promotional material. Maproom (talk) 15:55, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

::Sorry. No discourtesy was intended. I was actually focused on being repeatedly reverted at Little Ice Age. Sigh. That they have a kitchen is surely encyclopedic. I put this into a note {lots of WP:RS) so that there would not be WP:Undue. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:14, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

:::I disagree. Many breweries have kitchens, which are not, and should not be, mentioned in their Wikipedia articles. Maproom (talk) 16:46, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

::::We can agree to disagree. We don't have a lot of editors giving us input on this. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:57, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

: The argument that it is not-encyclopedic is a poor one, because removing it removes the fact it has food service. The material is entirely appropriate for inclusion. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 17:27, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Dragonmead Articles for Deletion/Dragonmead] which resulted in a Keep and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Dragonmead Did you know nominations/Dragonmead] which failed over a question of 5X expansion. There was a suggestion by someone at the time that it could be remedied by nominating it for a GA. I didn't follow up on that. GAs are a lot of work, and I did not want to make the effort. I don't think it was ever nominated for GA. Until today, I was unaware of a putative GA review. If I had been, I would have tried to address the listed issue. I don't know what that's about. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:26, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

:Thanks for digging those up. I added the AfD; as far as I can see failed DYK nominations don't go in article history so I left that out. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:14, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

::I don't care; it doesn't matter anyway. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:48, 9 February 2023 (UTC)