Talk:Ed Mitzen

My edits were taken down as vandalism. They are not. As partially explained here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Ed_Mitzen

The original post is purely a white-washed biography most likely created by the subject or his employees. This is buttressed by attempts to delete the page early in its existence:

"Uneventful life of a businessman None of his ventures have been particularly successful, and none of them have articles here,Trivial little notice and local PR" and "an advertorially toned page on an unremarkable executive. Sources include trivial mentions and / or WP:SPIP coverage, as in: "Fingerpaint Founder Recounts Road to Success!" in The Daily Gazette. Wikipedia is not a resume hosting service."

The above criticisms are valid. Notice the original page maks no mention of the opioid pharmaceutical companies that the subject collaborated with EXTENSIVELY. These companies paid the subject 10's (perhaps 100's) of millions of dollars for his efforts.

If Cephalon, Insys and Mallinckrodt paid the subject millions of dollars to help exacerbate the opioid crisis is that really giving "undue weight" to a serious topic? I would suggest this information is entirely more appropriate on wikipedia than the entirely incomplete "resume" thats published.

I would encourage you to visit https://www.industrydocuments.ucsf.edu/opioids/ and enter search terms for Mitzen, Fingerpaint and Palio. This is a relatively new and and very reliable database. SaratogaBen (talk) 19:56, 27 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello stristack

I apologize re my understanding of the protocols here. But on reflection of your explanation and your neglect in responding to my input, I'm going to attempt to undo your deletion. At least half of the page is concerning the subjects business. Other commentators have highlighted the promotional nature of the original. Everything in my edit is sourced back to the suject himself or his businesses...all of which he was the Chief Executive of. And it is all glowing. So the perceived "weight" of my edit is not "undue" or without balance. Additionally, If we can talk about Disney we can talk about Cephalon. Please let me know your thoughts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SaratogaBen (talk • contribs) 01:51, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hi @SaratogaBen, thanks for your follow-up. To clarify, your previous additions were removed not out of disregard for balance but due to sourcing and due weight concerns, as outlined in WP:UNDUE and WP:RS. While criticism and controversy are welcome on Wikipedia when supported by high-quality secondary sources, content drawn primarily from raw, uncontextualized document databases—like the UCSF Opioid Archives—does not meet the standard for inclusion without reliable secondary analysis from mainstream media or academic publications.

:Additionally, past deletion discussions are not justification to override policy. If you believe the article lacks neutrality, the appropriate course is to propose specific, well-sourced changes here on the Talk page for discussion—not to re-add content that editors have already removed based on policy.

:If you find coverage of Ed Mitzen's business relationships with opioid manufacturers in reliable sources (e.g. The New York Times, Reuters, academic journals, etc.), please share them here. Happy to collaborate on balanced, policy-compliant updates. There are no specified time tables on Wikipedia when it comes to responding on Talk Pages, so I would advise you to let the discussion build up over a few weeks before edit warring on the page again. By repeatedly adding poorly sourced information, you risk having your account banned. StakeStack (talk) 13:49, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

::Sir my edit is backed by the archive AND a sourced document from Duke University Press. Is that not a qualifying source and why? SaratogaBen (talk) 13:57, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

::Additionally, I did not re add content. I edited your deletion and removed at least half the content including mainstream articles. All I left was a sourced academic article from Duke University Press authored by professors from Johns Hopkins and University of Toronto. Please explain why that is not a reliable source. SaratogaBen (talk) 14:14, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:::I don't know that you're reading my responses or the guidelines I've attached, given your replies. Please read the WP:RS guidelines and propose your changes on this talk page before continuing to edit war on the page. It is not my responsibility to help you understand the rules. To answer your question, no, your sources do not support the content you're adding. The 'Duke' article doesn't even mention Mitzen in the abstract and the document is inaccessible based on the link you provided. The Reuters article also doesn't mention Mitzen? You need to be more specific about where you're referencing the information. If you do not want to get banned, please propose your changes on the Talk page and wait for other editors to chime in. Things do not happen instantaneously on this platform as you'll come to learn so please be patient in garnering the community's response. StakeStack (talk) 14:36, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Sir, your threat of banning is inappropriate. Your inital reasoning was "undue weight"

::::"Hey, thanks for following up. I removed the “Opioid epidemic” section (diff) because it gave undue weight to a serious topic that isn’t widely covered in reliable sources about Ed Mitzen himself (WP:UNDUE)."

::::So I "read" your reasoning and removed half of my edit and resubmitted one focused topic.

::::You deleted that edit under the guise of lacking "reasonable sources" i.e., " high-quality secondary sources...from mainstream media or academic publications."

::::My topic was based on:

::::Inside "Operation Change Agent": Mallinckrodt's Plan for Capturing the Opioid Market

::::February 2024

::::Journal of Health Politics Policy and Law 49(4)

::::DOI:10.1215/03616878-11186127

::::The above citation was in the edit which you claimed was not "reliable."

::::I appropriately sourced this article in my edit. You cannot claim it is not high quality. The subject is or was the founder and president of Fingerpaint as cited in the original topic. The article focused on some of the marketing practices of Fingerpaint. You cannot disassaciate the subject from the Company that is repeatedly mentioned, without controversty, in the original topic. Only now, beacuse the edit may have perceived negative information, do you require this elevated standard. BTW,The reuters article was for context.

::::NOW, you claim the article is inaccessible based on the link I provided. Again, I "read" your response and referred to WP:RS. And nothing in that article mentions a necessity for a link to the full text of the article. Are you suggesting that every cited source on Wikipedia requires such a link? If so that is a double standard. For example, the original topic sources a Fast Company article which is also "inaccessible."

::::https://www.fastcompany.com/90742522/world-changing-ideas-awards-2022-impact-investing-finalists-and-honorable-mentions

::::The quotes in my edit are verbatim from the article I cited but here is a longer excerpt...unless you want me to copy/paste the entire article...which I'm happy to do:

::::"Fingerpaint Marketing provided sales reps with more practical assis-

::::tance in the form of an iPad that came loaded with an app that would help

::::them handle objections to Exalgo. Working with the Exalgo brand team,

::::Fingerpaint was paid $52,375 to develop an iPad Objection Handler sales

::::tool designed to “address the top five most frequently heard objections

::::made by physicians.”32 As described on the accompanying corporate

::::authorization form, the tool was a response to “a critical and urgent need in

::::the field to support the sales force in overcoming the most frequently

::::reported physician barriers to prescribing EXALGO. Tool will be instru-

::::mental in arming the sales force with the most compelling and appropri-

::::ate arguments to address concerns and help to drive sales.”

::::I propose my last edit focused on the above article be reinstated. I do not appreciate the moving targets you have presented me or your threats of banning which are completely innappropriate. If you do not replace my edit please advise me on how I can elevate this to an unbiased moderator. Thank You SaratogaBen (talk) 15:44, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::It is as simple as this: your sources do not mention Ed Mitzen. They shouldn't be used as a source of content on his page. Maybe you should be adding this information to pages that the sources are related to? StakeStack (talk) 16:54, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::Ok pal I’ll do just that. BTW I will also supply all links on the relevant topic that don’t mention Ed Mitzen. I expect you will be deleting those sections as well. SaratogaBen (talk) 18:04, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::Listing sources that do not mention Ed Mitzen and/or are "inaccessible based on the link." Please remove per your stated policy. This is only from the first 19 listed sources. you should not be enforcing rules unevenly. Please review remaining sources 20-34 for possible removal. Whats good for the goose in good for the gander. Seriously most of the links are trade journals. Thank You

::::::https://www.wsj.com/business/entrepreneurship/how-black-businesses-in-new-york-are-trying-to-close-the-black-white-wealth-gap-2982adf4

::::::https://www.dailygazette.com/article/2016/02/20/0220_palio/

::::::https://www.dailygazette.com/article/2015/02/22/fingerpaint-founder-recounts-road-success/

::::::https://www.bizjournals.com/albany/news/2014/11/18/how-ed-mitzen-added-lionsgate-and-kimpton-hotels.html

::::::https://saratogatodaynewspaper.com/news/news/item/1966-the-man-behind-the-marketing-the-story-of-fingerpaint

::::::https://www.mmm-online.com/agency-100/agency-100-2022-fingerpaint/

::::::https://www.adweek.com/agencies/fingerpaint-founder-donates-4m-to-pay-staff-student-loan-debt/

::::::https://www.wsj.com/business/entrepreneurship/how-black-businesses-in-new-york-are-trying-to-close-the-black-white-wealth-gap-2982adf4

::::::https://foothillsbusinessdaily.com/api/content/63c125c0-40a3-11ec-9581-12f1225286c6/ SaratogaBen (talk) 00:21, 29 May 2025 (UTC)