Talk:Edward L. Feightner

It took longer than I thought, but I believe I have removed all self-published sources from this article. I'll go ahead and remove the self-published warning. Thanks, Skeet Shooter (talk) 11:58, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

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An IP user, 92.238.193.204, has twice deleted the sources for this article’s section on Awards and Decorations. I believe these reliable sources should remain per WP:BLP and WP:V. Would the IP user please provide a rationale for removing the sources? Thank you, Skeet Shooter (talk) 01:11, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

The issue came up on whether Feightner’s aviator call sign, "Whitey", should appear in the article lead. GiantSnowman stated that WP:MOSNICKNAME recommends against it, but Skeet Shooter thought this guidance applied only to the name of the article rather than the content. MOS:NICKNAME, that deals with names in the lead/body states, "If a person is known by a nickname ... it is usually presented between double quotation marks following the last given name" For example, Roland Bernard "Bunny" Berigan. There are articles of Feightner's contemporaries that also use this approach (e.g. James H. Flatley, John Thach, Edward O'Hare, Floyd B. Parks). Although WP guidance is not completely clear, consensus was reached to restore Feightner’s aviator call sign in the lead. My thanks to GiantSnowman for working to reach consensus. Skeet Shooter (talk) 19:27, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

:The difference with "Bunny" Berigan is that his article is located at... Bunny Berigan. If this article was at Whitey Feightner then so be it, but it's not. Also what consensus to restore?! GiantSnowman 20:24, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

::I thought we had reached consensus when you wrote "You're (kind of) right" on my talk page. Sorry for jumping the gun. Skeet Shooter (talk) 21:02, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

:You've also conveniently (deliberately, if I was a cynic) ignored the bit of MOS:NICKNAME that says "If a nickname is used in place of the subject's entire name, it is usually given separately", which then cites the example of Al Capone/Scarface. His name is not (rightly) not given in the lede as "Al 'Scarface' Capone" is it? GiantSnowman 20:27, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

:: There was no malice intended. I just didn't think that section of MOS:NICKNAME applied in this case as the literature refers to Feightner by many names including "Edward Feightner", "Whitey Fighter", "Whitey", etc. I'm just trying to understand how to apply MOS:NICKNAME but to me the guidance and examples are not very clear. In cases like this, I usually look at similar articles to see how an issue was interpreted by other editors. Here are the leads of articles of a few of Feightner's contemporaries:

::* James H. Flatley - James Henry "Jimmy" Flatley Jr. was a ...

::* John Thach - John Smith "Jimmy" Thach was a ...

::* Edward O'Hare - Edward Henry "Butch" O'Hare was a ...

::* Floyd B. Parks - Floyd Bruce "Red" Parks was a ...

::So I continued the pattern with:

::* Edward L. Feightner - Edward Lewis "Whitey" Feightner was a ...

::I'm not sure if the other articles are "right", but there are at least a few other editors who interpreted MOS:NICKNAME the same way. I am not insisting on reverting your change. I just wanted to explain my rationale. Since you feel so strongly about your interpretation, I'll leave the text as is. Thank you for your suggestions and improvements to this article. Skeet Shooter (talk) 22:43, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

:::Please see WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS - I have also corrected the other articles in line with MOS. GiantSnowman 17:08, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

::::I believe the "Bunny Berigen" section of MOS:NICKNAME applies to Feightner. There is nothing in the explanatory text that requires the name of the article to start with the nickname. The text states, "If a person is known by a nickname used in lieu of in addition to (italics mine) a given name ..." I thought the "Bunny Berigan" and "Tina Fey" examples illustrated the first case (in lieu of) while no examples of the second case (or in addition to) were provided. Feightner is an example of the second case since his nickname is in addition to his name.

:::: I also looked at some of the recent military biography featured articles, since they get considerable scrutiny. It was a mixed bag with regard to the use of nicknames in the lead. But there are some that support this interpretation of MOS:NICKNAME:

::::* Tom Derrick - Thomas Currie "Diver" Derrick was a ...

::::* William Sterling Parsons - William Sterling "Deak" Parsons was a ...

::::I checked the FA review logs but could find no discussion of nicknames. Is there an archived discussion on the use of nicknames that might shed some light? To me, it seems that the "Bunny Berigen" section of MOS:NICKNAME can be reasonably interpreted to support the "double quotation marks" format. Skeet Shooter (talk) 22:52, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

:::::If he was known as Whitey Feightner (a la Whitey Bulger and Bunny Berigan) then use WP:RM to get the article moved there. If he was not and it was just a nickname used by colleagues then it should NOT be included. GiantSnowman 13:53, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

FlIGHT BLUE ANGELS AEROBATIC 2607:FB91:CBA:5CED:AC39:BE37:FE7D:AC6D (talk) 07:12, 2 September 2023 (UTC)