Talk:Ely and Littleport riots of 1816/GA1

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:This review is transcluded from Talk:Ely and Littleport riots 1816/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Nikkimaria (talk) 01:53, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Hello! I will be reviewing this article for potential GA status. My review should be posted shortly. Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 01:53, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, I don't feel this article is quite up to GA standard. I encourage you to continue your excellent work on it and renominate once the below issues have been addressed. Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 03:03, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

• "the mob began intimidating wealthy residents" - "wealthier" residents? The mob is made up of residents, correct? Also, residents of the inn or of the town as a whole? agreed {{done-t}}
• Amend infobox date to reflect spread of riot to Ely? agreed {{done-t}}
• Shorter quotes (less than three lines long) would in most instances be better incorporated into the prose instead of separated agreed {{done-t}}
• "marched through Denver then onto Downham Market both in Norfolk, to meet with the magistrates" - grammar agreed {{done-t}}
• "Littleport, is a large village" (and similar) - comma not needed agreed {{done-t}}
• "One man went to get a horn from from Burgess" - grammar agreed {{done-t}}
• "the Globe Inn" or "The Globe Inn"? agreed {{done-t}}
• "as they would attend to him soon enough" - is this a direct quote? If so, quote it; if not, rephrase agreed {{done-t}} was not a quote but rephrased to be a direct quote
• "his housekeeper, Mrs Hutt, was intimated by a rioter wielding a butchers cleaver" - do you mean "intimidated"? Also, should be "butcher's" agreed {{done-t}}
• "Arriving next at "a nice old gentleman", Mr Little, who gave the mob £2 (£118); they continued on" - grammar, ... agreed {{done-t}}
• ... and clarify that the number in parentheses represents modern currency

::stet I had every modern monetary value cited but peer-review asked me to remove all but one so further advice needed here

:::I don't think you need to cite them individually, but just remove the "at present worth, as of 2010" in the first instance and instead say in a note "all numbers in parentheses are modern values as of 2010"

:::: Sorry. I am being thick. I still do not understand.

::::* remove the "at present worth, as of 2010" - understood I think

::::* do you mean replace my exiting note "All monetary figures in this article are inflated to {{CURRENTYEAR}} values using RPI as describe in [http://www.measuringworth.com/indicator.html Choosing the Best Indicator to Measure Relative Worth]" with your "all numbers in parentheses are modern values as of 2010" or do you mean every occurence of parenthetic monetary values need a note, e.g. ?

:::::*Oh, I see, you've got that under references...in that case, just include that as a footnote rather than a note

• "Next came the old lady, Mrs Rebecca Waddelow, where they broke into her house" - grammar. Also, is Waddelow a noble? If not, suggest using "woman" {{done-t}} --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• "Mrs Rebecca Cutlack, wife of John, a Littleport farmer, was visiting at the time, they robbed her and then removed property worth between £100 and £200,[22] (£5,877–£11,754)." - grammar {{done-t}} --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• "The rioters then stopped a post chaise[28] returning with Mr Hugh Robert Evans senior, and Mr Martin from a Turnpike Trust meeting in Downham and robbed him of 14 shillings,[29] (£41), before allowing him to proceed" - who did they rob, Evans or Martin? Also, comma after "shillings" should be removed agreed {{done-t}}
• Avoid one-sentence paragraphs, as they tend to disrupt text flow
• What are "fowling guns"? agreed {{done-t}}
• "On being told that they wanted 'the price of a stone of flour per day' and that 'our children are starving, give us a living wage' the Reverend agreed" - grammar. Use full quotation marks. agreed {{done-t}}
• "Sidmouth was not convinced" - about what? Please clarify agreed {{done-t}}
• "Law called in at Royston troop of volunteer yeomanry cavalry asking them to attend" - rephrase for clarity agreed {{done-t}}
• "Before arrival at the Ely Road[nb 6] between Upton Lane and the lower part of The Crescent, a small detachment of troops were ordered across the Hemp Field to enter the village from the east" - given that most readers will not be familiar with this area, you can be less specific and more descriptive. A map would be very helpful if you could find one {{done-t}} --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• Thomas Sindal or Sindall? agreed {{done-t}} Both are correct from different sources - using spelling from majority sources
• "Thomas Sindall was killed; the only person known to be at both Downham Market and Littleport" - grammar agreed {{done-t}}
• "The result of this shooting subdued the rest of the rioters" -> "This shooting subdued the rest of the rioters" or "The result of this shooting was to subdue the rest of the rioters" agreed {{done-t}}
• "A detachment of 69th regiment" - this should be explained here rather than later in the paragraph agreed {{done-t}}
• "The rounding up of the rest of the rioters" - phrasing agreed {{done-t}}
• "£5 each,[46] (£294)" (and similar) - comma not needed agreed {{done-t}}
• What are "six pounders"? agreed {{done-t}} they are cannon - fixed plus ref
• "special commission" or "Special Commission"? agreed {{done-t}}
• "since 1800 it was Edward Christian" - grammar since 1800
• "the crown...appointed his own Judges" - grammar Stet please advise as the crown was a he

:*Generally "crown" is taken as a genderless noun, regardless of who it represents at the time. {{done-t}} --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

• Justice Burrough or Burroughs? agreed {{done-t}}
• "9am to around 6 pm" - format times consistently agreed {{done-t}}
• Why is there a separate section for the first day but not all the other days? I understand your concern about excessive detail, but this layout seems odd
• "Of the nineteen persons commuted, seven were sentenced to penal transportation" - table lists 9 sentenced to transportation {{done-t}} --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• "John Dennis (32), a publican" - table lists his occupation as "victualler" {{done-t}} --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• "On Saturday 22 June 1816 six men were acquitted; ten were discharged; thirty-six were bailed; twenty-three men and one woman were condemned" - total of 76 people? There were 82 in court the first day

:* I am aware of this discrepancy. I need to re-consult the sources --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

• "which departed for New South Wales...and arrived in New South Wales" - repetitious {{done-t}} --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• "Isaac Harley (33), junior" and "Thomas South (22) the younger" - table omits the junior/younger designation (but includes elder for Beamiss) {{done-t}} --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• "On Friday 28 June 1816 at 9 am, the condemned men, William Beamiss, George Crow, John Dennis, Isaac Harley and Thomas South, were driven from the gaol at Ely Market place in a black draped cart[84] and two horses costing five-pound five-shillings[85] (£309) accompanied by the Bishop's gaol Chaplain, John Griffin,[86] in a hired chaise and pair costing 13 shillings (£38).[87] In submitting his expenses on the 29 June" - is "Ely Market place" the correct name? "black draped" -> "black-draped". Omit "the" from the date. Why is such a big emphasis being placed on the costs of transportation? {{done-t}} --Senra (talk) 12:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• "Goal Street" -> "Gaol Street"? agreed {{done-t}}

*"vicars" -> "vicar's" agreed {{done-t}}

• "twelve condemned prisoners who had had their sentences commuted to twelve months imprisonment" - you said ten prisoners earlier, which is correct? Stet both are correct. The ten you are referring to were acquitted. Full breakdown follows:

:: 24 condemned --> "On Saturday 22 June 1816 six men were acquitted; ten were discharged; thirty-six were bailed; twenty-three men and one woman were condemned of whom eighteen men and the woman, Sarah Hobbs, had their sentences commuted."

:: 5 of the 24 condemned were executed

:: 19 remaining --> "Of the nineteen persons commuted, seven were sentenced to penal transportation"

:: 12 remaining now --> "A few days after the execution, the twelve condemned prisoners who had had their sentences commuted to twelve months imprisonment were transported to the prison hulk Justitia ..."

: QED?

• Ely jail or gaol? agreed {{done-t}}
• "prisoners sentences" -> "prisoners' sentences" agreed {{done-t}}
• "Leaving England on 9 October 1816, the ship arrived in New South Wales 152 days later on 10 March 1817" - repeat from earlier section agreed {{done-t}}

• "Johnson 1893 p. 75[58]" (and similar) - the footnote replicates the in-line citation - one or the other should be removed {{done-t}} --Senra (talk) 12:33, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• Ref 4: formatting? agreed {{done-t}}
• Bibliography should be in alphabetical order agreed {{done-t}}
• Ref 37: formatting? agreed {{done-t}}
• Use a consistent formatting for references {{done-t}} --Senra (talk) 12:33, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• Ref 27: author should be capitalized agreed {{done-t}}
• Galloway is not in Notes; nor is Gentleman's magazine. If these aren't used as citations, they should be a Further reading section agreed {{done-t}}
• Ref 17: publisher? agreed {{done-t}} replaced non WP:RS Goggin with OED
• What makes GenUK a reliable source? agreed {{done-t}} replaced with Peacock and Johnson
• How does ref 34 support the cited information? agreed {{done-t}} removed ref as not supporting anything
• Ref 92: publisher? agreed on reflection this is not RS. Seeking an RS source. Note sure what to do here. Perhaps strike the sentence? Shame really --Senra (talk) 12:33, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

• Some excessive detail on things like prices and some repetition (both discussed above)

• "this was a sham" is not directly supported by the article, although it is implied agreed {{done-t}} cut
• "a hollow truce", "sacked" - need a more neutral/encyclopedic phrasing agreed {{done-t}}
• In general, the tone could be more encyclopedic. This tends to be an issue with historical articles - they often emulate the tone of their sources, which isn't always appropriate in a NPOV context

No issues noted

• Captions should be grammatically correct and quotes in captions should be cited agreed {{done-t}}

: Thank you for the review. I very much appreciate the time you have taken to look over this article. I am working through your points and would expect to complete them all within the next two days. I am obviously disappointed to be awarded a fail without being given time to address your concerns. Would you be very clear please and let me know what other steps I need to take to make this article elligible to be submitted as a GAN? --Senra (Talk) 20:24, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

::Gosh, looking at it now I can't actually believe this was removed as a GA last month (you've either done a great job getting it back up to standard, or the reviewer was a bit harsh). If you nominate it again, Senra, I'll be happy to put it back. Rob (talk) 10:22, 26 November 2010 (UTC)