Talk:Ernie Johnson Jr.#Requested move 5 August 2024

:The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. While the responses both for and against are almost tied in number, both sides have valid arguments and no consensus was found. As for undiscussed moves, the original title here was Ernie Johnson, Jr., which was then moved to the current title to remove the comma, then a move to Ernie Johnson (sportscaster) was reverted in 2017. From what I can tell, the current title has always been the title on Wikipedia, unless there is missing history. (closed by non-admin page mover) ASUKITE 14:18, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

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:Ernie Johnson Jr. → {{no redirect|Ernie Johnson (sportscaster)}} – Revert undiscussed move. No evidence that he is commonly known as "Ernie Johnson Jr." 162 etc. (talk) 00:02, 5 August 2024 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). 162 etc. (talk) 07:50, 5 August 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Waqar💬 08:49, 12 August 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 06:05, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 13:58, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. His father also worked as a sportscaster. Either keep as Ernie Johnson Jr. (a name that's certainly used in the sources) or move to Ernie Johnson (sportscaster, born 1956). -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:11, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose or prefer alternate title. Per Necrothesp -- the proposed title would not provide adequate disambiguation.--Yaksar (let's chat) 20:24, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
• No preference between Ernie Johnson Jr. and Ernie Johnson (sportscaster), but explicitly oppose Ernie Johnson (sportscaster, born 1956), a mockery of clarity. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 14:37, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
• Support move per nom. He's commonly known as Ernie Johnson without the suffix, and has a reasonable claim for PDAB between the two. O.N.R. ^(talk) 16:31, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

:Note: WikiProject Golf, WikiProject Atlanta Braves, WikiProject Biography/Sports and games, WikiProject Biography, WikiProject Tennis, and WikiProject Baseball have been notified of this discussion. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 06:06, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

• "Undiscussed move" comment Regarding the nom referring to an "undiscussed move", it seems to have been moved to Ernie Johnson Jr. in 2017.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Ernie+Johnson+%28sportscaster%29] That seems long enough to have "Jr." be considered the last stable version.—Bagumba (talk) 06:21, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Parenthetical dab is the least preferred per WP:PARENDIS, used {{tq|... when none of the other solutions lead to an optimal article title|q=yes}}. Per WP:NATDIS, natural disambiguation is not intended to be the "most common" name: {{tq|... albeit not as commonly as the preferred-but-ambiguous title, is sometimes preferred|q=yes}}. However, "Ernie Johnson Jr." is sometimes used by sources: "When Charles Barkley looks at you and says those words, you stiffen ... and right now, Ernie Johnson Jr. is stiffer than Shawn Bradley." ([http://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/020514 ESPN]), "Ernie Johnson Jr. never thought he would enter the family business." ([https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5098607/2023/11/30/ernie-johnson-sr-atlanta-braves-ford-frick-award/ The Athletic]), "Former WSB-TV reporter and current NBA on TNT host Ernie Johnson Jr. was honored in Athens earlier this week." ([https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/former-wsb-tv-reporter-nba-tnt-host-ernie-johnson-jr-honored-by-uga-with-broadcasting-award/37U6MWIMFNF5JLFJG3QSNU2ID4/ WSB-TV]). His father, Ernie Johnson (pitcher), was also a broadcaster, so {{noredirect|Ernie Johnson (sportscaster)}} is still ambiguous and an incomplete disambiguation.—Bagumba (talk) 07:16, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose there are myriad print examples of him being referred to as Ernie Johnson Jr. — such as [https://www.newspapers.com/article/waterloo-region-record/153601454/ here], [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-baltimore-sun/153601490/ here], [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-atlanta-constitution/153601532/ here], [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-atlanta-constitution/153601574/ here], [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-atlanta-constitution/153601616/ here], [https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-philadelphia-inquirer/153601665/ here], and [https://www.newspapers.com/article/clarion-ledger/153601705/ here]. Dmoore5556 (talk) 17:10, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
• Support I've never heard him called Jr. before when I've seen him on TV. Also, I've never really been a big fan of the suffix proliferation on this site. This guy is not referred to as Jr. à la Ken Griffey Jr. It's misleading to future generations who won't know the difference and will actually think he was called "Ernie Johnson Jr." I don't think we should add the Jr. just to differentiate him from others. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 23:51, 19 August 2024 (UTC)
• :I get what you're saying. For years I thought quarterback sack should be sack (gridiron football), but I guess I drank the Kool-Aid at some point on WP:NATURALDIS. One could tweak the lead with {{tq|commonly known simply as "Ernie Johnson"}}.—Bagumba (talk) 04:15, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
• ::Yeah, that's what I did at Steve Smith, Sr. and Clay Matthews III. You could be right about sack too. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 04:23, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
• Comment There are examples of both versions being used on television, such as: Ernie Johnson Jr. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyZSJGDhb8w here] and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxC-TLNiofg here] and Ernie Johnson [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlwskaF8Nrg here] and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q97OfO1vOPc here]. In print, his autobiography (which appears in one of the above clips) uses the "Jr." [https://www.amazon.com/Unscripted-Unpredictable-Moments-That-Extraordinary/dp/0801093732/ Amazon]. Dmoore5556 (talk) 02:53, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
• :And his book's website is http://erniejohnsonjr.com/ —Bagumba (talk) 04:35, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
• Comment Re: disambiguation, one alternative could be Senior moved to Ernie Johnson (pitcher/sportscaster) and Junior to Ernie Johnson (sportscaster). This falls in line with Wikipedia:Naming conventions (baseball players) #3, second "Note." Rgrds. --BX (talk) 04:47, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
• :Ernie Johnson (sportscaster) is ambiguous though, because reader might not be aware that the one they are looking for is also a pitcher. —Bagumba (talk) 05:25, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
• ::Could be alleviated with the hatnote. Just a brainstorm. Rgrds. --BX (talk) 05:31, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
• :::The titles wouldn't meet WP:PRECISION: {{tq|Usually, titles should unambiguously define the topical scope of the article...|q=yes}} Hatnotes are typically for the primary topic, not for parenthetically disambiguated titles that remain ambiguous. I've removed the non-precise example at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (baseball players). —Bagumba (talk) 08:29, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
• ::::Bob's your uncle. Rgrds. --BX (talk) 10:14, 20 August 2024 (UTC)
• :We never disambiguate using more than one term. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:23, 20 August 2024 (UTC)