Talk:Franz Kafka

The normal approach on Wikipedia and elsewhere is to give the titles in English, with the German in parentheses, not the other way around, as the article does. It is also the more common approach when it comes to the specific famous works by Kafka mentioned here (The Trial, the Castle). 62.73.72.3 (talk) 12:09, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

:I think the reason it's been done like this is to allow for multiple translations of the title, e.g. {{tq|"Das Urteil" ("The Judgment", literally: "The Verdict")}} and {{tq|Die Verwandlung (The Metamorphosis, or The Transformation)}}. I think this is a reasonable reason to keep it this way around, at least in the article body; the lead gives only the English names. Ligaturama (talk) 13:09, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

: The decision for the original titles was made in 2012, when Kafka became a featured article. He wrote in German, and while a few works have well-known names also in English, the majority of his works is less known in English. Some works have several different names in English. Balzac was an example for this approach. There is no "normal approach" in Wikipedia. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:56, 2 February 2025 (UTC)

::These don't seem like serious reasons. If there are several translations, we can pick one and add the other one in parentheses. If there is no known translation, we can make one. Or we can write the works that don't have a predominant and well-known English title in German with translations, but do it the other way around with the ones that do have one. Every writer has works that aren't very famous. Should we call 'Crime and Punishment' Prestuplenie i nakazanie just because Dostoyevsky also has some works that aren't world-famous? Here is what Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Titles of works#Translations says:

::'For works originally named in languages other than English, use WP:COMMONNAME to determine whether the original title or an English language version should be used as the article title. For works best known by their title in a language other than English, an English translation of that title may be helpful. If the work is also well known by an English title, give the English translation in parentheses following normal formatting for titles: Les Liaisons dangereuses (Dangerous Liaisons). Where the work is not known by an English title, give the translation in parentheses without special formatting in sentence case: Weinen, Klagen, Sorgen, Zagen (Weeping, lamenting, worrying, fearing).'

::And WP:COMMONNAME says:

::'Wikipedia ... generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable, English-language sources)'

::It seems logical that the same thing should be applied to mentions of works in an article. This means that at least The Trial and the The Castle should be called that. With Balzac, I suspect that the reason is partly that a large proportion of readers used to know French and partly that he isn't read a lot these days and that whoever reads him is likely to be so versed in French culture already that he reads him in French. But I don't actually know which names are more common for his works. In general, this packing of the text with foreign-language phrases and sentences strikes me as a snobbish custom ('if you don't know that language, the problem is yours'), and Wikipedia should strive to be reader-friendly, not turn people off with snobbery.--62.73.72.3 (talk) 00:02, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

I will explain the two corrections that I made on April 13. Two of the books listed had red warning signs about date incompatibility. That is because they included ISBN numbers of later editions, and the original editions were published before ISBN numbers existed. Help:CS1 errors - Wikipedia states:

ISBN / Date incompatibility

ISBNs were created c. 1965. Books published before that date will not have been issued an ISBN.

To resolve this error:

: remove the ISBN when citing a source published before 1965

Maurice Magnus (talk) 13:08, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

There's nothing really to discuss. The editor who removed "incessant womanizing" is correct. Look at [https://books.google.com/books?id=iB8sEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA44&dq=incessant+womanising+reiner+stach&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi06fqg4JKNAxVHMVkFHcHAN8YQuwV6BAgMEAg#v=onepage&q=incessant%20womanising%20reiner%20stach&f=false Kafka: The Decisive Years - Reiner Stach - Google Books] Maurice Magnus (talk) 01:52, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

I'm new to Wikipedia, but Kafka was euthanized with morphine and other painkillers. He didn't die of the starvation he was experiencing. Pizzajohn319 (talk) 05:19, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

: Do you have good sources? Please let's discuss them here. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:07, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

::The source that this page currently points to (Max Brod's biography of Kafka) actually gives a somewhat detailed description of Kafka's final moments, including the medicines used to euthanize him and him begging to take them. For a more modern source there's Kafka: the Years of Insight by Reiner Stach (around page 570), which mostly reiterates what was documented by Brod, but adds some perspective of Dr. Klopstock and Dora Diamant. Pizzajohn319 (talk) 20:45, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

::: Thank you! When I look at 570 in the link in the above thread I arrive at the index. Do we happen to have the passage in the Google excerpts? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:20, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

::::I don't understand how Google Books works but its near the end of chapter 28. Pizzajohn319 (talk) 06:53, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

::::: It works presenting a few pages, I found Chapter 28 beginning on [https://books.google.de/books?id=iB8sEAAAQBAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&pg=PA401 p. 401] in that version, but then there is nothing between 403 and 503. (You can turn pages back and forth, or insert a page number in the url, replacing 401.) We miss what would interest me. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:22, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::There seems to be some confusion. The book I am referring to is Kafka: the Years of Insight, which is volume 3 of 3 in this series. It is being confused with Kafka: the Decisive Years, which is volume 1 of 3 in this series. Here is the link to the book and section: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Kafka/CZ5EEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA570&printsec=frontcover Pizzajohn319 (talk) 00:31, 7 June 2025 (UTC)