Talk:Genetically modified organism#Artificial Mutant

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{{small|Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:12, 16 January 2022 (UTC)}}

Merry Christmas. As anyone watching this page is well aware I have been doing extensive developments recently. Thanks to those that fixed some of my errors. I am looking to put this through the good article process, but thought I would solicit any opinions first. Basically I was trying to keep this a companion piece to genetic engineering. This one focusing more on the products, while the other more on the process. There was always going to be some overlap unfortunately, but hopefully it is not too bad. This has gotten quite long though, with 54kb readable prose, so there may be a case for trimming. I have copied information from here to recreated Genetically modified plant and Genetically modified animal articles (and will do the same for viruses and bacteria soon) so if this is trimmed the information will not be lost. Regards AIRcorn (talk) 09:45, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

:I very much appreciate this work, but there is a problem that concerns me significantly. Editors working on this page need to remember that there is a paragraph that was established at WP:GMORFC that must not be altered. Even if it is just an issue of formatting the citations – ping {{u|Boghog}} – this requirement still applies. This is a serious matter, subject to Discretionary Sanctions. There is no problem with a formatting change that is not visible, but recently there have repeatedly been changes that modify the within-citation direct quotes, changing line breaks or the positions of quote marks, and that is not OK. I've been correcting these things, but I should not have to do so, and I certainly do not want the problem to get worse in the course of a GA review. After the most recent round of edits (I assume the ones by you, Aircorn), there is now a citation error within that paragraph, that needs to be fixed promptly. Apparently, some new content in the page uses , creating a conflict with the RfC paragraph: see the references list. The citation within the RfC paragraph should remain as it is, and the citation somewhere else on the page (I'm not going to look for it) should be revised to something like AMA2.

:I realize that these are good-faith errors, so I have no intention of going after anyone, but please stop introducing these problems. There is a very simple way to avoid any problems at all: do not alter the paragraph, even if it is simply a matter of "consistent formatting". A bit of inconsistent formatting is not the worst thing in the world, and it is important not to start down the road of small changes to the consensus paragraph. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:21, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

:: OK, fine, but there was absolutely no warning given to editors in the article itself that there is a special paragraph that has been frozen in time. There is a warning on this talk page, but not in the article itself. I have [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genetically_modified_organism&type=revision&diff=875349983&oldid=875346770 added] one. It might be better to move this text into a template and transclude the template back into this article (and any other articles that contain this text). Just out of curiosity, and changes to this text (e.g., adding more recent sources) would require a new RFC? Boghog (talk) 21:23, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

:::Yes, even adding more recent sources would require either: a new RfC of equivalent prominence, or a consensus of admins at WP:AE, or permission from ArbCom. The GMO ArbCom case was such a bloodletting that this is the way that things are, and why I'm so sensitive about it. But to repeat: I realize everyone here was acting in good faith. I know there is an edit notice every time anyone edits the page, that points to the DS and refers to page-specific restrictions, which in this case means looking at the talk page to see the information about the RfC. I think transcluding a new template might require prior permission from ArbCom. I'm just explaining that; I didn't make the rules. I like what you did with the non-displaying notice. Thanks. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:54, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

:::{{tq|It may be overturned only by another widely published full 30-day RfC, a consensus of administrators at WP:AE, or by decree of the Arbitration Committee.}} Whether that applies to small edits and modifications could be debated. There was talk of updating the Domingo reference some time ago. Suffice it to say that any change will need some sort of strong consensus. It was a necessary evil at the time and has done its job remarkably well. Personally I have reservations trancluding article content in article space (see Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 147#Transcluding article content into other articles). The hidden text is a good idea though and I will add it to the other articles. AIRcorn (talk) 22:11, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

::::The way I see it, anything that changes the meaning requires that kind of permission. That would certainly include adding a more recent citation, because that would be tantamount to updating what the RfC decided. For minor modifications such as formatting, I think it's important to keep in mind that each one of the quotations within the citations was fought over scorched earth. When someone makes a relatively trivial revision (maybe that's where the ref name=AMA came from), I take into consideration whether it was good faith. And again, all of what happened this time was entirely good faith. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:27, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

:::::It may well be that we have made a rod for our own back, but I still think it carries more positives than negatives. FWIW I have added the hidden test to all the articles covered under WP:GMORFC so hopefully that helps prevent these good faith edits and saves everyone a bit of angst. AIRcorn (talk) 16:40, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

::::::Thanks for doing that. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:44, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

::{{ec}}Sorry to do this to you, but I think you introduced the cite error. It was not present when I finished editing last night[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genetically_modified_organism&oldid=875295719] and came about with [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genetically_modified_organism&type=revision&diff=875343999&oldid=875343564 this] diff. Going back to the original addition of the paragraph in July 2016 it did not use [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genetically_modified_organism&offset=&limit=500&action=history]. Anyway it is really a minor issue, easily solved. I only mention it here because it was assumed I caused it.

::I am more interested in the order of the paragraphs in that section. I can understand wanting to keep it as a separate paragraph, but I would like to at least move the health introductory sentence above it. I think it would be good to keep the environmental concerns next followed by the miscellaneous ones. Basically from my understanding health is the main concern (hence the RFC), followed by the environment. It currently doesn't flow well going intro - scientific consensus on health - miscellaneous - health - environment. This is a diff of what I propose [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genetically_modified_organism&type=revision&diff=875350282&oldid=875349983] (not sure why the spaces were removed, might be a bug in visual editor). I fully understand the importance of the consensus paragraph, I would not be editing this article if we hadn't got that resolution, and have been careful not to change it or edit against the spirit of it. AIRcorn (talk) 21:37, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

:::As I said, I realize that everybody was acting in good faith, so I'm OK with taking the blame for the cite error. But all I did was restore the cite information that had been there before your edits, and your edits brought in the second "AMA" cite, so, whatever.

:::About the paragraph order, I'm fine with the reordering you suggest, thanks for asking. But please do not restore it by self-reverting. Please make a clean edit, because your first edit reverted what Boghog did. I just don't want the RfC paragraph to be too low, and I don't want it combined into another paragraph. While you are at it, you might want to check whether, in fact, there are some duplicate citations. I think there might be, for AAAS and AMA, but I didn't check carefully. They look different because of the within-cite quotations. But it would be fine to leave the RfC cites as is, and use their "ref name="s to cite them again in other paragraphs. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:03, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

::::I really didn't. It was never in the [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genetically_modified_organism&type=revision&diff=728835381&oldid=728121174 addition of the paragraph after the RFC] and it was already present elsewhere before I started the latest round of edits [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genetically_modified_organism&action=edit&oldid=852502698 search ref name="AMA" here]. In fact the cause of the issue was another good faith user who combined the cites 2 weeks ago.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Genetically_modified_organism&diff=next&oldid=873629011] Anyway, I didn't start this section to go diff diving so hopefully this clears it up.

::::I was hoping to get some opinions on broad issues like Wikipedia:Article size (I am fine with it, but realise it is borderline) and missing info (maybe a definition section of what is a GMO, but that is covered in Genetic engineering). I am pretty happy with where we sit personally so if there are no other major concerns I will take a little break from it and then do a final copy-edit. I do not enjoy the busy-work of consistently formatting refs and am happy as long as the information is easy for readers to find. That is one of the reasons why I focus on GAs and not FAs. For those unfamiliar these are the criteria I am aiming for. AIRcorn (talk) 16:06, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

:::::Thanks. Given that the issue I raised became sort-of off-topic for the GA effort, please feel free, if you would like to, to collapse the discussion starting at my first comment and continuing through the first paragraph of your most recent comment here. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:44, 26 December 2018 (UTC)

::::::I saw the updates just as I was getting away from the computer for awhile. I haven't had a chance to really dig into them all for potential trimming, etc., but overall they look like pretty good additions. I've been meaning to do a read through of the whole article sometime soon after the New Year, so I'll see what I can do to help before a GA review. The one that might get a little dicey, but needs to be addressed before GA is the definition of GMO especially in relation to gene editing, but also how it was a nebulous term scientifically before gene editing really came up. Kingofaces43 (talk) 20:05, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

:::::::It is briefly mentioned (two sentences) under regulation regarding the different take US has compared to EU. There is also the older meanings of GMO re traditional breeding that may need to be given context and still comes up at these pages every now and again, so maybe an Etymology section is needed. When I was writing this I was adding information as I found it and some is probably more important than others. I tried to keep it to themes and emphasised the research side more as it tends to get overlooked here and I didn't want this to become just another GM crop article. Also what I found interesting might not be great encyclopaedically. I have some ideas of what could be trimmed or maybe even combined, but will not prejudge you. Thanks for the help and thoughts, you too Trypto. AIRcorn (talk) 08:33, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

::::::::Thanks, I'm glad that we are good on it. I'm going to mostly leave the GA to you and KofA and whoever else wants to do it, because my bandwidth for it is already a bit full: I'm helping get another page to FA, and the whole GM area has gotten to feel like "work" for me. So good luck, and let me know if there is something specific where I can help. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:44, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

::::::::The recent addition of the Etylmology section looks pretty good. It's more comprehensive than the draft I had partially put together. I still have a few sources I have to dig through that I could add, and I'll take care of wrapping that and the overall read-through I mentioned tomorrow and Monday. Kingofaces43 (talk) 02:43, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

:::::::::Thanks. I am going to play with Template:Genetic engineering sidebar and update the Template:Genetic engineering over the next few days so hopefully I will keep out of your way. AIRcorn (talk) 08:04, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

::::::::::I don't expect that to affect anything I'll be doing. Hopefully I'll have everything wrapped before Tuesday or close to it. Kingofaces43 (talk) 05:04, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

:::::::::::Aircorn, I just did my once over, and most anything I could think of wasn't really needed for fleshing out at this article in terms of GA assessment here afterall. Most things I initially had in mind as potential issues keep an eye out for are better addressed at the crops article and are either given just enough of a brief review here or aren't mentioned to avoid getting into the weeds. I'd be pretty comfortable seeing this nominated for GA as it stands. Kingofaces43 (talk) 06:21, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

::::::::::::Having a little bit of trouble parsing that, but get the bottom line that it is ready to go. Thanks for your read through, much appreciated. AIRcorn (talk) 06:04, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

• Okay the nomination is up. It could take a while for it to be picked up, but if anyone is interested the page to watch is Talk:Genetically modified organism/GA1. AIRcorn (talk) 04:09, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

Why is this article protected from editing? 50.107.133.126 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:39, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

:To prevent vandalism and the like. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:21, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

{{Talk:Genetically modified organism/GA1}}

Congrats and appreciation to all the editors who raised this page to a GA! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:08, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

{{edit semi-protected|Genetically modified organism|answered=yes}}

Please remove this website:

wple.net/plek/numery_2007/numer-10-2007/908-912-koszowskigoniewicz-czogala.pdf from article. This is new website about nutres. Protector164 (talk) 10:54, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

:I've retrieved a Wayback Machine archive from 2013 for this page and amended it to the citation. MagPlex ^{(talk · contribs)} 16:21, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Hello,

Shouldn't it be "genetically-modified organism", as "genetically" modifies {{small|(heh)}} "modified"? I don't know whether or not I'm right about that. Any input is appreciated. Thanks, DesertPipeline (talk) 04:55, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

:Has been without hyphen for years. Assume there is a consensus. David notMD (talk) 18:47, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

:See MOS:HYPHEN #3, bullet 4. Generally no hyphens after -ly adverbs because they are already assumed to be modifying the subsequent word. –CWenger (^ • @) 19:11, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

::Good point, CWenger. I hadn't read that. Regards, DesertPipeline (talk) 11:34, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

During my research on crops and their modification it should be noted under controversies the companies that drive these controversial topics and how they are involved in the process of GMOS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shantasukra (talk • contribs) 00:54, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

Hello,

I would like to add this into the controversies section.

The companies involved in the controversies how they function in the process of GMOs and chemicals tied to crop GMOs.

"Monsanto and Bayer have become one of the largest companies that control the seed and pesticide market in both the united states and Europe now that their deal is complete.  These are one of the major players in the GMO world that drive new innovative ways to have new GMOs this also includes Pesticides and herbicides that are used in crops."

--Shantasukra (talk) 01:02, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

::I have removed the addition. The generalizations are not in line with how sourced statements typically appear on wikipedia, and overall language is vague, "new innovative ways to have new GMOs" particularly so. I see that you are a student editor, and I suggest that you choose a different area of focus. If you contact the wikiEdu staff assigned to your class, they can help you switch. GMO-related pages are an area of particular controversy on wikipedia and subject to WP:1RR. Most GMO-related articles are also fairly mature articles, and are going to be hard for a new editor to make improvements to even apart from the 1RR issue.Dialectric (talk) 23:26, 13 October 2021 (UTC)