Talk:Geography of Middle-earth

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An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Rushdown (Middle-earth). Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Hog Farm (talk) 03:41, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

{{Discussion top|reason=Withdrawn. Hog Farm (talk) 18:56, 15 May 2020 (UTC)}}

I'm proposing merging Old Forest into this article. The Old Forest is clearly in the scope of this article, the length of this article overall is not an issue, and I believe that the Old Forest would be best explained within the context of this article. Some of the detail from that article will be lost, for length concerns, but there's a room for a couple paragraphs on this topic. Hog Farm (talk) 18:50, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

:: Why would that be necessary? The Old Forest is clearly notable; we already have 8 reliable secondary sources listed, and there's plenty of detail already on the topic without hunting for more. There's scope, I guess, for a general article on Forests in Middle-earth and the importance of trees and woods in Tolkien's thought, the concept of the wildwood full of woodwoses, elves, ents, and so on; and a merge to such an article might make sense, though Lothlorien, Fangorn, and Mirkwood all have worthy articles and much scholarly attention also; a merger to a pure bit of geography would rather miss all of that. My tuppence'orth. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:14, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

::: Just an idea. I agree that the Old Forest would have stand-alone notability, I just personally think that it might fit better in an overall article. Self-disclosure: I'm a bit of a deletionist/reductionist myself, which is probably fairly obvious. Of the sources in Old Forest, the first two actually deal more with the concepts of forests overall than with the Old Forest itself. Ref 5 appears to be a school assignment of some sort. Personally, a merger somewhere would be my inclination per WP:PAGEDECIDE, but I respect the belief of those who disagree with me on that, because the page could definitely stand alone by itself. Hog Farm (talk) 19:29, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

:::: Hmm. Well I certainly agree with you, {{U|Hog Farm}}, that the article isn't very satisfactory for several reasons, but its relationships are not mainly geographic. Part of it probably belongs with Tom Bombadil, master of the Old Forest; part of it actually concerns Middle-earth forests in general, and we have a gap there, partly filled by Mirkwood but that wouldn't do as a home for any of this. I have begun a Trees and forests in Middle-earth article (I meant to start it as a draft, but my finger slipped, so I felt I'd better get it started properly), and there is much to say there. (The other author who admitted she was "arboreal" was Ursula Le Guin ... perhaps Trees in Fiction one day ...). But none of the articles mentioned is a logical a merger target. I suspect editing the article will be the best answer. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:45, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

{{Discussion bottom}}

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A discussion is taking place to address the redirect :List of Middle-earth rivers. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 August 14#List of Middle-earth rivers until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Hog Farm _Bacon 23:53, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

How is the Origins section and its map not pure WP:OR and WP:SYNTH? Does a text or map exist where JRR or Christopher Tolkien make the presented associations? How are the personal seculations of John Garth substantial or even notable? ♆ CUSH ♆ 09:55, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

:: All the statements both in the text and in the image are reliably cited, so nothing is original research by any editor. John Garth is a respected biographer and Tolkien scholar. His statements about the origins of Middle-earth's geographic features are (as cited in text and caption) in his book The Worlds of J. R. R. Tolkien. That book has been reviewed favourably by Tolkien scholars, by newspapers including The Times, and by literary critics including in the New York Journal of Books. Several of the statements actually stem from Tolkien himself, for example his letter #168 links Gondor and Venice. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:13, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

{{Talk:Geography of Middle-earth/GA1}}

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

• Gondor sketch map.svg
• Sketch Map of Middle-earth.svg
• Sketch Map of The Shire.svg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:12, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

What [abuse contrary to Wikipedia policy deleted] is the apparent link of Mordor with Germany on this map

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Middle-earth?#Origins 2003:DC:7F13:F313:2947:AFD4:6B38:89C (talk) 18:45, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

:No abuse on talk pages please.

:No, no connection with Germany at all. The map shows Mordor has 2 influences --- the Battle of the Somme (in France), in which Tolkien took part; and the Black Country (in England), near where he grew up. The placement of the Middle-earth boxes is just anywhere near the real-world points, placed so that lines do not overlap.

:As for Germany, not mentioned on the map at all, Tolkien was unequivocal that there was no equation of wartime enemy with evil: the line between good and evil ran through every human heart, so there was no 'good' or 'bad' side, even if there were ignorant leaders. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:47, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Under Misty Mountains:

…and the all-year Redhorn Pass further south near Moria.

The Redhorn Pass was not "all-year". It could be blocked by bad weather, especially in winter by big snowfalls. In particular the Fellowship of the Ring tried, without success, to use the Redhorn Pass before they felt compelled to pass the Misty Mountains through Moria. — Tonymec (talk) 22:52, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

:It was blocked by supernatural means. The party had expected to get through. Chiswick Chap (talk) 01:38, 7 July 2024 (UTC)