Talk:Golan Heights#Etymology and Geography

Prior consensus on language order involved many topic banned or blocked accounts which were in clear violation of coordinated editing and canvassing. Seeing if a real consensus now actually supports the language order of Hebrew then Arabic for this article. Iljhgtn (talk) 16:35, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

:"many topic banned or blocked accounts which were in clear violation of coordinated editing and canvassing" - factcheck false. Not off to a great start... Sean.hoyland (talk) 16:50, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

::What part of that is not factual? You want the receipts? Iljhgtn (talk) 17:04, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Supporting statements about editors with evidence is always good. There are usually some "topic banned or blocked accounts" involved in previous (and current) discussions, so that part isn't very interesting. The level of dishonesty and fuckwittery in the topic area is, and always has been, rather high. But the "which were in clear violation of coordinated editing and canvassing" part is not factual as far as I'm aware. Sean.hoyland (talk) 17:20, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

:::I should clarify, of course, that the word 'evidence' is being used in the normal sense. In this context, it means on-wiki evidence consistent with your statement. It does not mean off-wiki propagandistic stories and conspiracy theories targeted at individuals with an elevated susceptibility to disinformation and manipulation. Sean.hoyland (talk) 17:35, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

::::This was ARBCOM blocks/topic bans which are publicly findable. Do you need links is what you are asking? And yes, many of those blocked were directly involved with the prior conversations on this and other related topics. I am not referring to "conspiracy theories", just the public on-Wikipedia record. Iljhgtn (talk) 17:49, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::"blocked" in some case, but mostly topic banned to be clear. Using that word interchangeably, but mostly it was Israel/Palestine related subject matter topic bans. Iljhgtn (talk) 17:50, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

Could you please link to previous discussion about the language order where the consensus was established by "many topic banned or blocked accounts which were in clear violation of coordinated editing and canvassing." --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 18:52, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

1. This is one, editor named nableezy is one such toppic banned account. Others are in there too I believe, along with blocked accounts from other sides. It appears as if the original consensus and article did in fact use Hebrew first and @Supreme Deliciousness you were actually the editor that sought to change it to what it is now. Talk:Golan_Heights/Archive_4#Arabic text before Hebrew. Iljhgtn (talk) 19:03, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Nableezy was topic banned 16 years after the discussion, and not for any reason related to that discussion. So that doesn't nullify his position in the discussion. Every one else banned there are pro-Israelis, "Hamas4life" and "Freegolan" were Joe job socks, DrorK and Shuki both used socks in A-I conflict articles. You also tried to change the language order last year and was told to get consensus at the talkpage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Golan_Heights/Archive_16#Order_of_language_translations Despite this you still went ahead and changed it now. --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 23:57, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

::::nableezy also commented heavily it seems in that more recent conversation, and yes, that makes their contribution invalid. New consensus is needed. Iljhgtn (talk) 01:02, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::His contribution would be invalid if they were made against a topic ban which they were not or if they "were in clear violation of coordinated editing and canvassing." which you claimed above and have shown no evidence of. The majority blocked/banned in that discussion are pro-Israelis. Furthermore I oppose you changing the language order, so you need a new consensus here to remove it. Not edit warring.--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 16:16, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::The change seems to have been made with topic banned accounts as well as on the topic directly related to such a topic. We should seek outside input then on how to proceed. Iljhgtn (talk) 22:45, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::: You seem to have a misunderstanding about topic bans. Edits made while someone is topic banned are null and can be undone. Edits made before someone is topic banned are normal edits that can't be discounted later on that basis alone. In any case you can't ignore a previous consensus on the grounds you propose. You have to get a new consensus. Zero^talk 05:44, 2 June 2025 (UTC)