Talk:Greta Thunberg#Using 'Existential crisis' in Wikivoice

Is it possible to continue focussing on the more recent speeches of Greta Thunberg? These seem to be falling off the radar.Fredericknoronha (talk) 21:59, 26 May 2025 (UTC)

:I agree - in general, her more recent activities are not sufficiently represented in the article. IntrigueIz (talk) 20:33, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

::She is no longer America's Sweetheart to liberals anymore K.D.Prasad (talk) 03:16, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

::Same 51.241.223.18 (talk) 17:23, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

:::I meant to agree to the second comment 51.241.223.18 (talk) 17:25, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

Given the dialect variance of English as well as Swedish, it might be better to not give informal phonetics. Swedes pronounce her name something like “Tune-berry” “Tune-barry” “tune buy ee”, depending, of course, both on what variety of Swedish the speaker is using, and what flavor of English the recipient speaks. Qwirkle (talk) 23:36, 28 January 2025 (UTC)

: Done. I went with {{Respell|TOON|berry}}, but no strong preference. Einsof (talk) 02:05, 3 March 2025 (UTC)

::I’m not familiar with Swedish phonetics, so I can’t comment on the IPA transcription.

::But I don’t think including an English respelling of the Swedish pronunciation is a good idea. Especially if it doesn’t match the IPA.

::{{Blockquote|text=It [respelling] should not be used for representing non-English words or an approximation thereof.|source=WP:RESPELLNOT}} SpelunkerOfMine (talk) 09:14, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

:::There is no well-defined category of "non-English words", especially so with proper names. The name "Greta Thunberg" now appears often enough in English discourse that large numbers of English speakers need some way to pronounce it, which is the point of the respelling. Arnold Schwarzenegger gets a respelling for the same reason; so does Amerigo Vespucci, Golda Meir, Alois Alzheimer, Albrecht Dürer, Benoit Mandelbrot, and hundreds (possibly thousands) of others. Are you proposing some kind of process here to determine which names are "non-English words" and then purge the respell template from those articles? Einsof (talk) 12:55, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

::::I’m not suggesting such a new process. I’m still a fairly new user, so it’s entirely possible I’ve misunderstood something.

::::All the articles you linked to had respellings for the English IPA transcriptions (unless I’m misinterpreting the formatting). This article currently only has a Swedish pronunciation. My primary concern with respelling the Swedish transcription is that the {{ipa|sv|ʉ̂ː}} sound is not present in the repelling key.

::::I’m not sure of the process for establishing which pronunciation(s) to include for someone’s name, but could we add an English IPA pronunciation and respell that? SpelunkerOfMine (talk) 13:13, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::Got it, I misunderstood before, thanks. I've added an English IPA pronunciation to precede the respelling. If it's too cluttered we may want to stick all the pronunciation information into a footnote. Einsof (talk) 16:14, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::I disagree with your English IPA transcriptions. Having [https://youglish.com/pronounce/Greta_thunberg/english searched] on YouGlish (a site that lets you search for YouTube videos in which people say a given word/phrase) for utterances of Greta Thunberg, the only speaker I could find in the first hundred or so results who pronounced it with a “y”-like sound at the end was David Suzuki in a CBC podcast ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOnUW-3EQ2w&t=315s YouTube link]).

::::::Most people pronounced it with a “g”-like sound at the end.

::::::The first consonant had a lot of variation - split between {{IPA|en|t}} and {{IPA|en|θ}}.

::::::The first vowel, similarly had a lot of variation. Most speakers pronounced it {{IPA|en|u}}, {{IPA|en|ʊ}}, or {{IPA|en|ʌ}}, with a few also pronouncing it {{IPA|en|ɜːr}}.

::::::But WP:NOR would imply we’d need an actual source for this if I understand correctly. SpelunkerOfMine (talk) 18:54, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::: I've now added a source from The Guardian. Einsof (talk) 19:44, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::{{blockquote|text= Her last name is pronounced Toonberg, as far as I’m aware|source=Do lawmakers keep calling Greta Thunberg “Miss Toonberry”?, The Guardian}}

::::::::The way I read the source you added was as expressing confusion as to the pronunciation. I’m not convinced we can use that as a source for a single pronunciation.

::::::::Equally, I can’t find any better sources, especially for the other pronunciations I heard on YouGlish. WP:NOTFINISHED as I understand it says it’s ok to stick with what we’ve got. SpelunkerOfMine (talk) 20:04, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::: There are two separate blotter entries (both linked in footnote 1) that need to be read in conjunction in order to understand what this source is saying. Einsof (talk) 20:34, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::Oops, I missed that, thanks for pointing it out.

::::::::::Given the sources available, I think the transcription that’s there currently is the best we can do. SpelunkerOfMine (talk) 10:05, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

{{od}} I've removed the "English pronunciation" altogether, as I don't find the sourcing convincing and we don't really need to have such a thing in this article anyway. Neither the "official" nor the "commonly" variant is cited to any reliable source, only a Guardian live blog which mentions it in passing based on comments by readers; the Swedish pronunciation is the correct one and we should stick with that. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 14:51, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:Well done. The surname according to normal English phonetics, which readers and speakers of English always should be allowed to use, is Thun (rhymes with done and fun) plus berg as in Goldberg. The Swedish pronunciarion is very difficult for speakers of English to handle, since the Swedish sound of the vowel u does not exist in English at all. Tibnberry would be the closest we could come. But why bother? SergeWoodzing (talk) 22:04, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

Over the past couple of years, Thunberg's activism focus seemed to have shifted dramatically from pure climate activism to what she calls "climate justice", which addresses minority rights across the world and social injustice. This isn't exactly "climate activism". This fact is only mentioned in one sentence in the title paragraph, painting a misleading picture of her current activity. נוף כרמל (talk) 08:56, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

: נוף כרמל Actually, I can't remember where I saw it, but I'll take a look if I can find it, in an interview she has said that she never only was a climate activist. As a child, she already went to demonstrations advocating for a more open refugee policy in Sweden.

:PS. I see now that it is already in the article. Maybe it was in Wikipedia where I first read it! 20px

:PPS. Here is a suggestion for a new first sentence. However, I feel that we need broad consensus for it before writing it in the article: "Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg (born 3 January 2003) is a Swedish activist engaged in several causes, best known for her climate activism urging world leaders to take immediate action against global warming." Lova Falk (talk) 09:31, 3 June 2025 (UTC)

::I like this phrasing👍 46.210.181.144 (talk) 12:36, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Thank you! I would like more consensus though. Other editors, what do you think? Lova Falk (talk) 13:45, 4 June 2025 (UTC)

:: From my perspective, I'd consider it a slight misrepresentation to label it as several other causes given her perspective of these issues as intersectional and interconnected (and thus not separate causes), however I will give some thought to if I have a specific phrasing suggestion. IntrigueIz (talk) 20:32, 5 June 2025 (UTC)

:::New suggestion: "Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg (born 3 January 2003) is a Swedish activist focused on the interconnected issues of climate, social, and human rights justice. She is best known for her climate activism urging world leaders to take immediate action against global warming." @ נוף כרמל , @ 46.210.181.144, @ IntrigueIz, and all other editors, what do you think? Lova Falk (talk) 19:07, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

::::Not bad, but it makes the broader assumption that the issues are interconnected, which may be contentious and require further substantiation. Perhaps "...is a Swedish activist focused on the issues of climate, social, and human rights justice and the intersections between them"? נוף כרמל (talk) 04:48, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::נוף כרמל Great! Lova Falk (talk) 17:39, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

She was arrested by isreali forces, not kidnapped. You break the law, youre arrested. 142.59.71.0 (talk) 01:55, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

: I've switched it to 'detained' which is a more general term that often applies to immigration matters. Robert Brockway (talk) 02:02, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

::Lol the MRA Zionist getting to dictate terms. Quite the unbiased individual 47.188.192.24 (talk) 02:36, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:::you don't have an account, save your opinion for somewhere else. she has been arrested, not kidnapped. Moshelillien (talk) 02:42, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

::::source? 210.174.43.91 (talk) 07:49, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

::::So whoever doesn't have an account doesn't have a voice. Is this Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, or not? 79.166.39.62 (talk) 08:03, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::it's clearly biased, this person has already received warnings for sending death threats from this ip all along the same topic Moshelillien (talk) 08:15, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::What person? Doug Weller talk 10:30, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

::::it's not arrest if there was no crime, it's just abduction. Morallygrace (talk) 16:26, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::you don't have to commit a crime to be arrested.

::::: Moshelillien (talk) 02:38, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::even if its a wrongful arrest, if there isn't a stated crime committed it's just abduction. and if the arrest happens outside of their juristiction, that is especially abduction Morallygrace (talk) 02:44, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:::@471.188.192.24

:::please refrain from personal attacks and assume good faith on Wikipedia. Also, Wikipedia is not a forum. The person didn’t say their is Zionist and even if they did, that’s not relevant to the question at hand. The question at hand is whether a detainment is a kidnapping. Let’s please stick with facts. Wikihowardstern (talk) 09:35, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

::::Anything about this particular topic is covered by the contentious topic relating to Arab-Israel politics. That means no PIs posting here or any account without 500 edits and 30 days. I haven't been able to figure out the syntax for the alert yet. Doug Weller talk 10:27, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:exactly what law has she broken? KOSƧIO (talk) 14:09, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:sailing in international waters is not a crime. 2600:387:15:2D1A:0:0:0:B (talk) 16:23, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:As others have stated, her vessel was boarded and detained in international waters. Delivering humanitarian aid is not illegal, it's actually illegal to prevent aid from reaching starving children. Morallygrace (talk) 16:28, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

::Rather than trying to judge a case of international law here, how about we use the word from the source, which is "detained"? HiLo48 (talk) 03:00, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Rather than trying to be overly neutral about obvious war crimes, why don't we call it what it is, which is "kidnapping"? Morallygrace (talk) 03:06, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

::::Because we go by what the sources say. HiLo48 (talk) 05:00, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::@HiLo48 And as this part of the article is under ECP, Morallygrace should not be commenting. Doug Weller talk 09:16, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::ECP? HiLo48 (talk) 23:22, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

With apologies to Mr Blackadder…

For the critical reading crowd that look at talk pages: it's important to note the role of her parents (both of them having intimate knowledge of and close ties to the public relations industry) in creating her public persona as well as achieving fame and recognition, unlike the millions of other people who work anonymously and sincerely for their causes, whatever those causes are.

I have no opinion on the actual causes that she publicises but I do think it's important to be aware that her role is, in effect, that of a professional influencer available for "collaborations", as they call it.

The article does not mention her occupation or her source of income, neither of which are entirely clear. Do note that her parents just happen to run a "charitable foundation" that accepts donations and various fees for services.

All of this is in principle perfectly legitimate. Dissimulating these things from the public, on the other hand, is not a great show of honesty. 37.188.134.18 (talk) 07:43, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:Yes, there is one news article that says that she has a modest net worth of 100,000 from her book sales. She’s 22. That’s like 1 million at 30. I commend your efforts to make this more unbiased, but the problem is none of the news articles that could be cited are accurate and of the few that are, Wikipedia has blocked those sources.

:this is not a place to rent about Wikipedia. However, this is not a rant about Wikipedia. It is a discussion of improving the article and the attendant challenges. However, I did change the language, a little bit to clarify intentions. Wikihowardstern (talk) 10:54, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:Your statements about her parents creating her public persona are false. They did not force her to start her school strike, it was her own idea. It is true that we don't write anything about her occupation. Since the autumn of 2023, Greta Thunberg has been studying in a bachelor's program at Stockholm University. I will add this to the article. FYI, all University students in Sweden are entitled to government student financial aid. If you take a look at our section Honours and awards, you see another source of income for her, even though she has donated most of it to different organizations. Lova Falk (talk) 16:56, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

::FYI, Wikihowardstern is indefinitely blocked as NOTHERE. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were a sock. Doug Weller talk 17:20, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

::> Your statements about her parents creating her public persona are false

::Which statements? Are you putting words in someone else's mouth? Is it not relevant to address the question of why this specific person becomes a well known public figure and not thousands if not millions of others?

::> FYI, all University students in Sweden are entitled to government student financial aid

::To my knowledge, not all of them, but that is beside the point. Reliable references to her being a full time student would address her occupational status. Similar references about her sources of income would probably be good for transparency, objectivity, and credibility's sake. Not to mention being of potential utility to future activists.

::Are Sweden's tax returns publicly available like in Norway?

::I guess the question is whether Wikipedia aspires to be a repository of knowledge or a compendium of press releases. 37.188.205.122 (talk) 10:44, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:::This is a case of WP:SOFIXIT. If you can find reliable sources to back up your claims, without engaging in original research, let's see them. Otherwise this sort of "criticism" is entirely unhelpful. In particular the conspiracy theory that her parents "created her public persona" as opposed to just supporting her in endeavours that she, herself, chose to engage in, is quite an accusation and requires very robust sourcing if we are to include it. WaggersTALK 11:02, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

{{edit semi-protected|Greta Thunberg|answered=yes}}

Under education: the date needs to be corrected from 224 to 2024. Unless we are suggesting she is 2,000 years old, in which case, her DOB should be updated. 2600:1700:715:6800:14DD:7075:E534:3BE9 (talk) 11:55, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

When it clearly ends in -berg? Can someone explain? 86.31.178.164 (talk) 14:32, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:Because she's not English Cinefeline (talk) 14:58, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

::There's nothing about pronunciation in the article. This is not a general forum. WaggersTALK 15:00, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:::Actually WaggersTALK, if you click on the tiny [a] behind her name, you'll see that it says: "English pronunciation: /ˈtuːnbɛri/ TOON-berry,". And to you 86.31.178.164, it seems to be the closest approximation of how to pronounce the last part of her surname. Lova Falk (talk) 15:42, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

::::Thanks, I missed that note WaggersTALK 07:52, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

This article is badly suffering from WP:PROSELINE. {{tq|On X date, Y happened.}} It's especially egregious in the following sections and should be addressed:

• Greta Thunberg#Further activism in Europe and end of sabbatical year
• Greta Thunberg#Activism from 2020 to 2021
• Greta Thunberg#Activism from 2022 to early 2023
• Greta Thunberg#Post-high school graduation
• Greta Thunberg#Pro-Palestinian activism

– Muboshgu (talk) 17:22, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:I've made a start on this - if nobody else came forward this would be a good case for sending the article to WP:GAR. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:14, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

{{Edit extended-protected|answered=yes}}

Description of suggested change:

Diff:

{{TextDiff|1=ORIGINAL_TEXT|2=CHANGED_TEXT}} Ang3latos (talk) 18:44, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. gobonobo ^{+ c} 02:49, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

{{hat}}

Hi all - I believe the current lead image, where Greta is wearing a keffiyeh, might not best represent her core notability as a climate activist. I propose replacing it with a more neutral, high-quality photo from one of her climate-related events. I am happy to upload options to Commons. Thoughts on this change? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ang3latos (talk • contribs) 06:44, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

: subsequent discussion removed per WP:ARBECR. {{Not done}}, not made in a "Change X to Y" format. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:18, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

{{hab}}

“Also aboard are high-profile figures including actor Liam Cunningham and MEP Rima Hassan, the latter barred from Israel for her pro-Palestinian stance.” This citation is incorrect - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-06-02/freedom-flotilla-explainer-greta-thunberg-aid-gaza/105366684. Meko79 (talk) 19:28, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:I changed it to the title "Freedom Flotilla aid mission bound for Gaza Strip sets sail with Greta Thunberg on board" at that page. I presume that is what was incorrect. LizardJr8 (talk) 20:29, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

::Even though that reference says Liam was on the boat, we now know that he wasn't. [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-gaza-aid-boat-hamas/ This article] clears up the confusion. I suppose the early reports suggesting he was part of the crew helped bring more attention to the mission, so perhaps it would be better to clarify that situation, rather than simply remove his name? Paprikaiser (talk) 20:17, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

A previous source said that she had to sign a paper in Israel in order to get deported. Greta later denied having signed a paper. Now if she did sign anyway, I think Israel will no doubt show this paper as proof that she lied, so if there comes no such proof, we can remove the text that she had to sign, and only keep the text that she didn't sign. {{small|I guess that Israel did not want to have her in an Israelian jail, and all the publicity that would bring}} Lova Falk (talk) 18:02, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

:I've found a source in English (from the BBC) that helps make the situation a bit clearer, so I've updated that section accordingly. Paprikaiser (talk) 20:07, 10 June 2025 (UTC)

::{{like}} Lova Falk (talk) 05:19, 11 June 2025 (UTC)

{{atop

| result = Don't feed the trolls WaggersTALK 13:51, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

}}

I think there should at least be a small mention of Greta's participation in seemingly rescuing four Sudanese migrants via the Madleen flotilla and then trafficking them to the controversial European Border and Coast Guard Agency, Frontex.

It seems this information is being suppressed by far-right media to dissociate Europe's anti-immigration front (Frontex) from the environmental movement. 2405:6E00:4EE:4DA1:686E:8BD2:4127:2CB3 (talk) 03:21, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:Is there a reliable source for the story? HiLo48 (talk) 03:51, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::[https://apnews.com/article/freedom-flotilla-thunberg-migrant-rescue-gaza-1c2de4094cda1173c87c570705268157 Aid vessel on Gaza mission rescues 4 migrants in the Mediterranean | AP News]

::From the Madleen themselves:

::[https://freedomflotilla.org/2025/06/05/madleen-responds-to-mayday-for-refugees-at-sea/ ‘Madleen’ Responds to Mayday for Refugees at Sea - Freedom Flotilla]

::And not a reliable source, but has more information about the mayday relay the Madleen says it received from a Frontex drone:

::[https://newlinesmag.com/spotlight/the-israeli-drones-guarding-fortress-europe/ The Israeli Drones Guarding Fortress Europe - New Lines Magazine] 2405:6E00:4EE:4DA1:686E:8BD2:4127:2CB3 (talk) 04:00, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:There were a lot of strong(er) personalities on that boat, so it can't be ascribed to the most famous (in the Anglosphere). It was a literally a boatful of celebrity activists. Rima Hassan, a French politician on board, even tweeted about it to other authoriti d, so they're all culpable. 49.179.37.111 (talk) 04:08, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

::The correct article for this is of course June 2025 Gaza Freedom Flotilla, not this article. {{small|Beyond the scope of this article, but what option did the flotilla have? If the refugees would have stayed on the ship, Israel would have detained them and then deported them back home. If the flotilla would have made a detour to deliver them, the purpose of the trip would have been lost. Frontex' assignment is to hand over rescued people to the coast guard or immigration services of the coastal state. Now they have not always done that, but still, handing the refugees over to Frontex was the best they could do.}} Lova Falk (talk) 05:17, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

:Describing this rescue as "trafficking" is silly; none of the sources cited use that word. This is clearly a troll post. WaggersTALK 13:47, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

{{abot}}