Talk:Hajj Nematollah

This article needs to be cleaned up to conform with the Wikipedia Manual of Style (WP:MOS). It also needs categories, and references, per Wikipedia:Verifiability. The tags that have been added to the top of the article, will alert other Wikipedia editors who know how to do these things, though the response can take awhile (potentially several weeks). If anyone else (even anonymous editors) would like to assist with the article in the meantime, please feel free. After the actions are completed (categories added, article cleaned up, etc.), the respective tags can be removed. Please let us know if you have any questions. --Elonka 16:02, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

:I just made an attempt at wikifying the article, and the result was a lot of red links. Thus I've left the {{tl|wikify}} tag in place. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:08, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

::Assuming the information is verifiable, Forqan ol-Akhbar should be moved to its own article. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:38, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

:::Yesterday 69.201.146.55 (talk · contribs) removed the tags {{tl|wikify}}, {{tl|splitsection}}, and {{tl|Citation style}} from the article without addressing these issues. Without an actual response from 69.201.146.55, it's hard to call this a "dispute", but I have requested a third opinion on the matter. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:28, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

::::Please disregard the sentence about WP:RF3O, I was confusing this with a different article involving the same anonymous editor. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:35, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Is Hajj Nematollah his birth name or is Hajj, in this case, an honorific? -- Gyrofrog (talk) 15:17, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

:His name was Hajj Nematollah from childhood, so thats his name, not something people added on at latter time.--Persianhistory2008 02:53, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

::I haven't had much luck trying to look up this person by name. I'm having trouble finding much about this person in general, so I have placed additional comments in a new "Verifiability" section. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:09, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

::Most of the books are in French, Farsi and Kurdish, so that is probably the reason why. Also the MANY different spellings of his name. Will write more about this in the section below.--Persianhistory2008 04:48, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

The list of printed resources in the "References" section is duly noted, but every attempt I've made to find reliable information via the Internet has been inconclusive at best, thus far. I would expect to find this article on other Wikipedias, e.g. Farsi or Kurdish; I wouldn't know how to search for these, but in any event there is no interwiki link to any other language. Hajj Nematollah (as named) would seem to be very obscure (which is not intended as a negative, nor is it meant to imply the person is not notable). A [http://www.worldcat.org WorldCat] search on "Ne'matullah" (as author) did give [http://worldcat.org/wcpa/oclc/29585375?page=frame&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcatalog.princeton.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2FPwebrecon.cgi%3FDB%3Dlocal%26CNT%3D25%26HIST%3D1%26BOOL1%3Das%2Ba%2Bphrase%26FLD1%3DISBN%2B%28ISBN%29%26SAB1%3D0951809342&title=Princeton+University&linktype=opac&detail=PUL%3APrinceton+University%3AAcademic this Farsi work] at several libraries, but I'm unsure whether it's relevant (the Islamic years in the title roughly correspond to 1776 and 1991 CE). WorldCat searches with [http://worldcat.org/search?q=su%3ANematollah&=Search&qt=owc_search subject = Nematollah] and [http://worldcat.org/search?q=su%3ANe%27matullah&=Search&qt=owc_search subject = Ne'matullah] gave no results, while [http://worldcat.org/oclc/58592231&referer=one_hit subject = Nimetullah] is someone else.

[http://www.kurdistanica.com/english/religion/yazdani/yaresan/yarasan.html Kurdistanica.com] mentions "Nurali llâhi… and his father Ni'matullah Jayhunâbâdi"; I'm not sure about its credentials although it does list some of the same references as this article. The Kurdish Wikipedia version of the Ahl-e Haqq article, from what I can tell, renders this name as "Nîmetullah Ceyhûnabadî", but it is a red link.

I don't have easy access to the Encyclopedia of Islam; I would have hoped that such a resource might be available online, or at least some very old version that is now in the public domain.

The Encyclopedia Britannica quote needs a more specific citation, e.g. which volume, which edition, which article, page number etc. I couldn't find it in the Eleventh Edition (no articles for Ahl-e Haqq or Yarsan), but perhaps that edition is too old (the subject himself would have still been alive). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:53, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

: [http://www.ahle-haqq.com/bibliography.html Ahle-haqq.com] credits this person thusly: "Book of Kings of the Truth. By: Haj Nematollah Jayhoonabadi- Mokri." I'm not sure whether "Mokri" refers to Mohammad Mokri or if it's supposed to be appended as part of the full name. I've also noticed that "Jayhoonabadi" and its variations resembles "Jeyhounabad", the city where he was born. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 15:53, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

::Gyrofrog, I know what you mean about the different spellings and translations. Unfortunately each translator uses there own spelling for names. French translators spell things VERY differently than English speaking translators. For instance, some of the french spell his name as d’hajji, “Hadjdji Ni’mat Allah” some hoji, some dehaji, and many different variations. If you go to the Library of Congress and look up any middle eastern or Asian name, you have to spend days trying out different spelling variations (of the same name). The Russians at the St. Petersburg library spell things completely different. This is a major universal problem for scholars that has to be fixed!

::All the major research libraries have the different spellings of Ahl-e haqq, Ahl-i haqq, Ahl-e hakk, Ahl-I hakk, Ahl ihaq, etc. etc. Even the most read book in the world, the “Quran” has many spellings. Penguin Classics has published the book as Koran, some others as Qurean.

::Mohammad Mokri published and translated one of Hajj Nemat’s books and added a Mokri to his name, but later retraced the “Mokri” (in later printings). The reason some people add “Jayhoonabadi” is because that is the city he was from and he died before 1925 when the shah (Reza shah) made it mandatory for Persian’s to have a last name. Since Hajj Nemat died before 1925 they had to make up a last name for him. Some of the posthumous last names have been Mojrem (the sinner in farsi, because he called himself a sinner), Mokri (the town of Moko), Jayhoonabadi (the town).

::I also remember reading the information about the Forqan ol-Akhbar in Britannica in the early 1990s, but have to check it out in the library.

::Encyclopaedia of Islam spells his name as “Hadjdji Ni’mat Allah” of “Djayhun-abad” (instead of “Jayhoonabadi). They name his son as “Nur Ali Shah”.--Persianhistory2008 05:41, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to {{plural:1|one external link|1 external links}} on Hajj Nematollah. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=711198394 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20111202172642/http://www.britannica.com/eb/topic-208035/Firqan-al-Akhbar to http://www.britannica.com/eb/topic-208035/Firqan-al-Akhbar

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