Talk:Ian Kennedy#reqmovetag

:The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page not moved. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 03:15, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

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• Ian Kennedy → Ian Kennedy (baseball player)
• Ian Kennedy (disambiguation) → Ian Kennedy

– Was recently looking for the article on Ian Kennedy (lawyer) (Sir Ian McColl Kennedy) and was surprised to see the baseball player occupying the primary page at Ian Kennedy. I think this occurred because the baseball player article was created first, and if the lawyer article had been created first then the situation would be the other way round. I don't think either person has a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC claim to the Ian Kennedy page, so I think that should be a disambiguation page. Am willing to fix the links from the baseball player's article if this gets moved. The instructions at WP:RM said to create this discussion on either this page or the talk page of the other page, but would it be acceptable for me to leave notices at the other Ian Kennedy pages, as I think the editors there would want to contribute to this discussion as well. Carcharoth (talk) 16:31, 5 November 2011 (UTC) Carcharoth (talk) 16:31, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. The ballplayer averages thousands of pageviews per month, up to 15,000 in Sept, while the lawyer averages 300 and has a fraction of the incoming wikilinks. To help those seeking the lawyer find him more easily, while not inconveniencing the majority seeking the ballplayer, simply add Ian Kennedy (lawyer) to the hatnote. Station1 (talk) 19:00, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
• You have a point, but Ian Kennedy is not just a lawyer. He has been Dean of the Law School at King's College London, is currently Emeritus Professor of Health Law, Ethics and Policy at University College London, has hosted a C4 television program, has numerous honorary fellowships, and has served on many government commissions and advisory bodies. In 2002, he was knighted for his services to medical law and bioethics. Clearly he is an eminent personage within his profession. I'm not sure how famous a baseball player Ian Kennedy is (compared to other baseball players), but that is the perspective I'm looking at this from. The relevant bit of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is "significantly greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term". My contention is that Sir Ian McColl Kennedy has greater enduring notability and educational value than the baseball player, so while I accept that the baseball player gets far more page views, the logical compromise is to disambiguate them both and make Ian Kennedy the disambiguation page. Carcharoth (talk) 20:57, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
• What you are saying is reasonable and I don't necessarily disagree until we get to that very last phrase about a logical compromise. By making Ian Kennedy a disambiguation page rather than adding Sir Ian to the hatnote, you do not benefit Sir Ian in any way (readers will not get to his article directly in either case; they must click through either a dab page or a hatnote), but you do inconvenience the larger number of readers searching for the ballplayer by shunting them to a dab page where they do not wish to be. To me it is more logical to not cause a detriment to the greater number where it will not even benefit the smaller number. Station1 (talk) 21:22, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
• Fair enough. For the general example, what ratio of page views would tip the balance? (BTW, the incoming wikilinks are largely polluted by the templates the baseball player appears in - remove those and the imbalance there is far less). Carcharoth (talk) 22:06, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
• I think you will find a range of opinions on that. For me, 200 views for A vs 100 views for B makes no difference, whereas 20,000 views for C vs 10,000 for D is more than enough, assuming it's consistent over time. Of course, views aren't the only consideration, but imo are often an important one. Station1 (talk) 00:24, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
• Comment. If the consensus is to move, the article should go to Ian Kennedy (baseball) because that's the standard disambiguation for baseball players. Jenks24 (talk) 22:14, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
• Not sure if it's a support or oppose: I know it may not do the knighted Ian Kennedy or the 20-game winning Ian Kennedy justice, but I'd say that you make them both disambiguated. We have a disambiguation page for three Ian Kennedys, and I think that should be the main Ian Kennedy page. Yes, that's not going to be popular with everyone, but it's the only way to give equal billing. Now, if Ian Kennedy the 20-game winner has a few more achievements to his name, then I'd make totally different comments. Right now, it's too early to say that a pitcher with 31 career wins is going to achieve more in his field than a lawyer with a knighthood. Being American, I'd never heard of the knighted Kennedy before today, but I know that a knighthood in Britain is serious stuff. So, I'd say to disambiguate both. -- Transaspie (talk) 07:41, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
• For the record, your sentiments are in support of the move. Theoldsparkle (talk) 16:40, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose per User:Station1; if thousands more people are looking for the baseball player than any other usage, the most efficient navigation strategy is to send them to the baseball player's article first. Theoldsparkle (talk) 16:40, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
• Support moves; The disambiguator may need tweaking as noted above. The page views do not tell the whole story. The lawyer is a significant player in world history; The baseball player is insignificant outside of the USA. In that there are three articles to disambiguate (plus a redlink), the best option is to go with no primary topic and move the DAB to the undisambiguated name. Andrewa (talk) 15:08, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
• I would recommend that none of the Ian Kennedys get moved until Thursday. Ian Kennedy, the pitcher, has a chance at winning a major award, and it's Thursday is when it gets announced. If he wins that award, then my Support becomes an Oppose. I had forgotten that he was in the running for that award, and I know that your stature rises rather sharply if you win that. Yes, in life, it may not mean as much as being a lawyer with a knighthood, but in popular culture, people are going to be more aware of you solely for that one award. Let's wait until Thursday...everything could change with this requested move that day. -- Transaspie (talk) 21:05, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
• Even if he wins that award, where does it leave him? A 26 year old pitcher who's a little slower than the fastest, and who has won some notable awards and victories against his fellow Americans but has little international profile. He may have a great future, I hope he does, but we should wait and see. Andrewa (talk) 00:09, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
• The chances of him winning that award are very slim.. he's probably going to finish third or fourth in the voting. But in any event, his popularity as a professional baseball player is large among american sports fans. I doubt even most people in britain have heard of the other guy. Spanneraol (talk) 01:42, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose per page views, ~2000 vs. ~300 in the past thirty days. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:13, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose... As i said above.. I doubt the "other" Ian Kennedy is even well known among his own countrymen... Sure he's accomplished academic fields.. but the common man probably doesn't follow those areas that much.. the disparity in page hits seems to bear this out. Spanneraol (talk) 01:44, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

:The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.