Talk:Ilhan Omar#ARBPIA

There was an arabic spelling of her name that was removed, can that be added back for muslim readers and arabic speakers/readers? WP is a global project. Iljhgtn (talk) 05:19, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

:This was removed several years ago for very good reasons, you should not add it back. Pinging all the users who took part in that discussion and have made any edits since 2021: {{ping|Zaathras|NightHeron|Cullen328}}. (I am JBL, currently traveling and not able to log in.) --158.144.178.11 (talk) 17:20, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

::I oppose adding the Arabic spelling for the reasons brought up in the previous conversation linked to by JBL. She is not an Arab and to the best of my knowledge, does not actually speak Arabic, although like all Muslims, she knows the basic religious phrases in Arabic. Cullen328 (talk) 17:50, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

:::I read the entire previous discussion and did not really see any "very good reasons" for not adding the Arabic translation.

:::I do think it is helpful for the 13% of Somali readers who are fluent in Arabic, and I do not really understand what the downside is. I do get that it is not information that would be beneficial to all readers, but how is it harmful? If it is marginally beneficial on the upside, but has even less to zero downside, then I would still argue for the Arabic language translation, as well as the Somali language translation included. Iljhgtn (talk) 23:08, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

::::It is common practice for Somali-American, Somali-Canadian or similar Somalis to have the Somali and Arabic language translations included in their bios, here is just a short list I was able to compile:

::::Mohamed Diriye Abdullahi, Ali Jimale Ahmed, Abdi Kusow, Mohamed Haji Mukhtar, Abdi Ismail Samatar, among dozens of other examples that can be provided if desired. Iljhgtn (talk) 01:08, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

:::::Here is a List of Somali Americans for more. Not every single one has the Arabic, but the overwhelming majority have Somali translation, so I went ahead and added that at least, while we deliberate still over whether or not to include the Arabic too (which I see as doing no harm, but adding some benefit to the article). Iljhgtn (talk) 13:03, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

::::::user:Iljhgtn, I see you added the Arabic and Somali spellings for several of the members of that list today. I would still lean towards following the result of that previous discussion (though if we add Arabic here and elsewhere, Somali first makes a whole lot more sense, as we typically include native names first if there are alternate names in the lead). I would lean towards establishing a standard across the board for Somali American public figures whose language of origin is Somali, but I wouldn't say we've reached a general consensus. ~Malvoliox (talk | contribs) 17:46, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

:::::::Some of them yes, in full disclosure, but still the overwhelming majority of the translations existed prior if you look through the full list. Iljhgtn (talk) 17:58, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

::::The harm, in my view, is in the foreignization of an American. Surely you know that the subject of this article has received an enormous amount of Islamophobic animus. Highlighting an unreferenced pronunciation guide in a language she does not speak furthers the idea that she is something other than American. She's not an Arab and her name is not Arabic. Adding an Arabic name also implies that she uses an Arabic name, which we have zero evidence of. The rationale that WP is a global project doesn't make a lot of sense to me either, because there already is an Arabic Wikipedia, where Ilhan Omar already has a page. See MOS:LEADLANG: "If the subject of the article is closely associated with a non-English language, a single equivalent name in another language may be included in the lead sentence, usually in parentheses." We've done that, for Somali, the language her name is in. Per MOS:NICKCRUFT: "Alternative names that are not well known to our readers may not need to be in the lead at all. Excessive non-English language details can make the lead sentence difficult to understand." For these reasons, I oppose the addition of an Arabic name in the lead. TheSavageNorwegian 22:29, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

:::::I agree. If readers want to know how the names of American politicians translate into their own languages, there are foreign language wikipedias for that. TFD (talk) 02:04, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

::::::I am convinced we can leave the Somali only then as a single other language translation within the standard parentheses per MOS, unless more reliable sources use the Arabic for her name or new evidence presents itself, at which time we can revisit adding Arabic. Thank you both for commenting in this discussion. Iljhgtn (talk) 02:32, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

:::::::I don't see any support for this from anyone else; I continue to oppose it. Omar immigrated to the US as a child and has been known by the name in the title of the article consistently in the time she has been notable; the Somali spelling name is not well attested to in sources that I can see (and unsourced in the article, and not present anywhere other than the lead); the fact that you personally are the one doing this in many of the other examples you cite is good evidence that it is abnormal rather than normal for WP articles. So I have once again reverted the addition. --JBL (talk) 17:16, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

::::::::"{{tq|...the overwhelming majority of the translations existed prior if you look through the full list.}}"

::::::::Feel free to check the list and not take my word for it. Including the Somali is very common, Somali and Arabic somewhat less common but second most common, and only in the rarest of instances is neither Somali nor Arabic used, regardless of my input. Iljhgtn (talk) 00:28, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Is there consensus for restoring the Somali language translation of Ilhan Omar which would look like this (Somali: Ilhaan Cumar), which is in english characters and translates to appear loosely the same ("Cumar" vs. "Omar", and one extra "a" in "Ilhaan" vs. "Ilhan"). [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ilhan_Omar&diff=prev&oldid=1264616325 This edit] was recently removed by an editor opposing both the Arabic AND Somali language translations. I came around to agreeing that the Arabic language version did not have consensus for being included despite being on many other Somali-American BLP articles (though I have added a few of those, but certainly not most). The Somali version alone, especially given that Somali is in English-Romantic characters, I believe also has a lower to zero risk of any "foreignization" potential downside, and only upside for adding context and native translation where it normally appears on a BLP when appropriate. Iljhgtn (talk) 16:12, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

:Hi {{u|Iljhgtn}}, thanks for [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:JayBeeEll&diff=prev&oldid=1264682470 your message] on my user talk-page. As I said there, I'd prefer to keep discussion centered here. Here for me is the key point: if someone were going to convince me to take the view that Ilhan Omar has a Somali name, and this is an important piece of information about her, what I would want to see is evidence that "Ilhan Omar's Somali name is Ilhaan Cumar" is a piece of information that is reasonably well attested to in English-language sources about her. (You can see above that I also take a similar view about IPA transliterations.) As far as I can tell, however, it is almost never mentioned. So what it would take to get me personally to drop my objection would be evidence of this piece of information being mentioned in good sources about her. Of course to develop a consensus it is not necessary that you convince me personally to change my view -- but so far it does not seem like you have convinced anyone else, either. --JBL (talk) 00:06, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

I have removed "She has received criticism over her personal relationships, with political opponents highlighting her past marital issues as a point of attack" from the lead, as it is not expanded on in the article. Her relationships are mentioned, but there is no reference to political opponents attacking her for that reason. Black Kite (talk) 10:01, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

{{Langx|so|Ilhaan Cabdullaahi Cumar}}; {{langx|ar|الهان عبدالله عمر}} QalasQalas (talk) 23:44, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

:This has been repeatedly discussed and rejected; I suppose you are welcome to start another one, but you should read the discussions above first. --JBL (talk) 23:52, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

::I read it, but i suggest WP:Snowball QalasQalas (talk) 23:54, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

:::WP:Snowball does not say "once a proposal has been roundly rejected, bring it up again, knowing that most people expressing an opinion will oppose it". If anything, it's the opposite. What is your interpretation of WP:Snowball in this case? MartinPoulter (talk) 15:10, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

{{edit semi-protected|Ilhan Omar|answered=yes}}

On April 25, 2025, Representative Ilhan Omar (D-MN) responded to a question from a Daily Caller reporter outside the U.S. Capitol with a profane remark. When asked whether more Democratic colleagues should travel to El Salvador to support Kilmar Abrego Garcia, an alleged MS-13 member who had been deported, Omar replied, "I think you should f--- off." The exchange drew media attention and sparked debate about press interactions and political discourse.

2603:8000:1000:DC4:E827:8616:FC54:8959 (talk) 22:47, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

:{{not done}}. Please provide a reliable source. Wikipedia has a strict policy on biographies of living people. I have deactivated the edit request (marked it as answered). If you would like to provide a source and rerequest your edit, you can change the template parameter "answered=" from "yes" to "no" or simply insert a new template. 🌳 Balsam Cottonwood (talk) ♰ 00:45, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

::I saw the encounter on social media. I oppose adding any mention of it. This is an incredibly minor event and is not "sparking debate" about anything. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:57, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Lots of politicians on both sides of the aisle receive death threats regularly, including credible ones, and this is not in the leads of their pages. The incident linked as a source in this article’s lead was significantly less prominent than the thwarted attacks on politicians like Nancy Pelosi, AOC, or even Donald Trump. Politicians like Governor Whitmer who have notable attacks have the incident detailed in their leads, not just a generic “they have been attacked before”. POC politicians also regularly receive racist remarks from opponents but Omar is the only one with it in the lead of the article. This whole line feels out of place and while I am not saying the incidents should be removed from the article in their respective sections, but the generic line like “she receives death threats” in the beginning of the article is unnecessary. If it is necessary for the introduction to say all this, then it should be more fleshed out. 2600:1700:89C6:2000:521:C7D9:AA5C:A424 (talk) 23:38, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

:IP, I've removed that bit, it's covered below and not so significant as to justify its removal. JayCubby 01:31, 7 May 2025 (UTC)