Talk:James Madison

I have been notified the James Madison article has passed FA Review, and is scheduled for FA Article release on March 4, 2025. In the interest of the article, editors not involved with FA should refrain from major edits or edit waring, until the March 4, 2025 date. Please do not add any new photos to the article. Thank you for your cooperation. Cmguy777 (talk) 21:48, 25 January 2025 (UTC)

: Thanks to everyone who helped get the James Madison article to FA. The article reached over 48,000 views on the FA release date, March 4, 2025. Cmguy777 (talk) 20:10, 6 March 2025 (UTC)

I have tried several times to fix the Alysa, Landers link, in the article. Not working. Can some editor plaese fix this or get the link to work. Thank you.

[https://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/james-madison-pushed-intermarriage-between-settlers-and-indians] Cmguy777 (talk) 00:50, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

:* {{fixed}} with this link: [https://web.archive.org/web/20241130045313/https://ictnews.org/archive/james-madison-pushed-intermarriage-between-settlers-and-indians] Cmguy777 (talk) 02:49, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

I removed {{tq|"As was consistent with Virginia's customs at the time"}} preface to sentence about Madison's treatment of his slaves: {{tq|"As was consistent with Virginia's customs at the time ...the humane treatment of ... slaves."}} The source does not say that Virginia slaveowners uniformly treated their slaves humanely. The source (Hopkins) implies that the wealthly slaveowners were afriad of slave revolts, and did the bare minimum to keep the revolts from happening. I tried to find a wording that more accurately reflected the source, but nothing sensible came to me. I don't think the phrase "As was consistent with Virginia's customs at the time" adds anything to the sentence or paragraph, so nothing is lost by removing it.

In any case, many slaveowners treated their slaves horrifically in Virginia at that time, and suggestions to the contrary would need LOTS of sourcing and plenty of caveats.

Researchers at James Madison University documented over 100 lynchings of African Americans in Virginia after the civil war, the last one in 1932: https://sites.lib.jmu.edu/valynchings/victims/ Treatment before the war was not humane by any stretch of the imagination. Noleander (talk) 04:11, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

:"100 lynchings of African Americans in Virginia" Your point being? The victims were not slaves. Dimadick (talk) 11:11, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

::My point is that Virginia was a terribly racist state during Madison's era, one that joined the confederacy, and one that supported slavery, and one that - even after slavery was abolished - continued to be very, very racist. And any editor that tries to insert text that "Virginia slaveowners treated their slaves humanely" is a bigot and racist. Noleander (talk) 19:14, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

:The Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution that abolished slavery was ratified in 1865. The source information given starts at 1866. This is 29 years after Madison's death. Of course, advocating human treatment of slaves is not the same as actual humane treatment. There would need to be a reliable source that says Madison did not treat his slaves humanely. This last minute Talk should have been discussed prior to FA release. Thank you. Cmguy777 (talk) 17:01, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

::This article was promoted to FA nearly two years ago, in May 2023. And removing a demonstrably false statement, which is not supported by the given source, never requires advance discussion on Talk page. Noleander (talk) 19:11, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

:::Since this article is on James Madison, did Madison or any overseers treat his slaves inhumanely? Are there any sources that say such a matter? Thank you. Cmguy777 (talk) 00:11, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

:::: According to Elizabeth Dowling Taylor, Madison was a "garden-variety slaveholder." He followed established social norms. Madison avoided excessive cruelty to his slaves. Slaves worked from dawn to dusk, six days a week, with Sundays off. EDT, A Slave in the White House: Paul Jennings and the Madisons (2012), pages 21-22. Cmguy777 (talk) 01:01, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

I ran a wikipedia citation tool on the article, and it is showing 2 or 3 sources (in the Sources section) that do not have any citations refering to them. One had a citation, but I removed it (see topic immediately above); but there are also two others. Noleander (talk) 04:17, 4 March 2025 (UTC)

:Can you list them here? ErnestKrause (talk) 16:03, 7 March 2025 (UTC)