Talk:Jan Smuts#Flags in infoboxes

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Jan Smuts. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070708134043/http://www.queensu.ca/sarc/Conferences/1940s/Baines.htm to http://www.queensu.ca/sarc/Conferences/1940s/Baines.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:43, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Jan Smuts. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160302075549/http://www.nam.ac.uk/exhibitions/online-exhibitions/britains-greatest-general/jan-smuts to http://www.nam.ac.uk/exhibitions/online-exhibitions/britains-greatest-general/jan-smuts
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130813002304/http://salempress.com/store/samples/great_events_from_history_20th_1901/great_events_from_history_20th_1901_south_africa.htm to http://salempress.com/store/samples/great_events_from_history_20th_1901/great_events_from_history_20th_1901_south_africa.htm
• Added {{tlx|dead link}} tag to http://heritage.thetimes.co.za/memorials/gp/MohandasGandhi/article.aspx?id=565973
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120926091120/http://daccess-dds-ny.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION/GEN/NR0/032/95/IMG/NR003295.pdf?OpenElement to http://daccess-dds-ny.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION/GEN/NR0/032/95/IMG/NR003295.pdf?OpenElement

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:12, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

There seem to be some questions over the spelling of his name, which I suggest are properly raised here rather than through the application of tags to the article. As he was of Afrikaner birth he was almost certainly born Christiaan. He is likely to have chosen to anglicise this at some point, possibly when he took up residence in the UK. I have added references for both spellings as both spellings are used. Dormskirk (talk) 09:41, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

:Apparently not ever spelled Christiaan - see Archive 1, "Middle name" (the next to final post in archive). If that assertion can be verified, all of the various articles on Jan Smuts should be checked and have the incorrect spelling removed, despite having references. Milkunderwood (talk) 07:56, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

::I have taken a look at the archive but the claim is not sourced and as such cannot be accepted at face value especially when there are good sources claiming the contrary. Best wishes. Dormskirk (talk) 10:42, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

Until today there were no flags in the infobox of this article. An IP inserted a few flags and I removed them with the edit summary "remove flags per WP:INFOBOXFLAG". I was therefore a bit surprised to see my removal of the flags reverted by another editor who used the edit summary "Does not apply to military subjects". My understanding is that the policy is laid out in WP:INFOBOXFLAG, WP:ICON and WP:III and it seems to me quite clear that flag icons should not be used in infoboxes. There is an exception "in some military history contexts" but the example given is "an in-depth exploration of a famous battle involving numerous forces with known flags" (this example would not apply here). There is further guidance in WP:MILMOS#FLAGS which says "the use of flag icons is not recommended; neither, however, is it prohibited." This does not really help as it is ambivalent. I know that there has been much discussion in the past on this. I have written hundreds of military biographies e.g. Nick Carter (British Army officer) and Mark Carleton-Smith to name just two; my practice in recent years has always been either not to include flags in infoboxes or to remove them. Do I now need to change my practice? Best wishes. Dormskirk (talk) 12:57, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

:The exception is usually taken to apply to battles or other similar cases (such as campaigns or the whole of a conflict). This does not appear to be the case here. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 14:25, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

::I agree with Dormskirk and RandomCanadian, flags should not be used in infoboxes for military biographies, they should only be used in infoboxes for wars and battles where necessary to distinguish between multiple forces. Mztourist (talk) 14:35, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

:::I think that flags are pointless clutter. My heart sank when I saw that lots of articles I watch had been stuffed. Keith-264 (talk) 16:01, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

:::Would serve no useful purpose here. Cinderella157 (talk) 23:31, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

It would be useful for someone familiar with Afrikaans to provide that more proper pronunciation of his name, which I assume is probably something like "yahn smoots". Milkunderwood (talk) 07:13, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

:{{u|Milkunderwood}} The vowels are shorter. "Jan" rhymes with "fun" - the vowel is the same. "Smuts" rhymes with "buts" as in "no buts or maybes". Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 07:58, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

::Thanks for the correction. Can you post the pronunciation at the article, so at least readers know not to say English "jan"? Milkunderwood (talk) 08:13, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

From the book Jan Smuts: Memoirs of the Boer War:

In 1936, Albert Einstein said of Smuts that he was one of only eleven men in the world who conceptually understood his th eories of relativity; in 1970, Lord Todd, the Master of Christ’s College, Cambridge, where Smuts had studied, said that in the 500 years of the College’s hi story, of all its members, past and present, three had been truly outstanding: John Milton, Charles Darwin and Jan Smuts.

(Nattrass & Spies (1994); page 19)

Maqdisi (talk) 04:48, 18 February 2022 (UTC)