Talk:Judge Guthrie

I accidentally hit return before I finished the edit summary. What I was saying is that while you are right to say that some artists in more recent stories have depicted Guthrie as lighter, in his first story (from which the article picture was taken) he was definitely black not just tanned, and his hair was dyed while he was undercover -- it went back to being black once he returned to uniform. Richard75 (talk) 14:16, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

:I really don't know how you can look at that picture and see a white man, but fine. Because of the three-revert rule I will leave this alone unless I find a secondary source. Richard75 (talk) 14:52, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

::I have to agree that he's white, clearly, unless you believe practically everyone else in the comic is also black, including Dredd. Just a quick two minute Yahoo image search shows the following images first: [http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A0PDoS7l.vVPLjIA_S6JzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Djudge%2Bguthrie%2Bthe%2Bpit%26ei%3DUTF-8%26fr%3Dyfp-t-701%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D1&w=200&h=269&imgurl=www.2000adreview.co.uk%2Freviews%2F2005%2Fimages%2F1461%2Fjudge_dredd2.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.2000adreview.co.uk%2Freviews%2F2005%2F2000ad_1461_review.shtml&size=23.8+KB&name=Guthrie+in+traction...&p=judge+guthrie+the+pit&oid=0be3af2a55f38529dc3cd59ea9c1b76e&fr2=&fr=yfp-t-701&tt=Guthrie%2Bin%2Btraction...&b=0&ni=56&no=1&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=1231r4nie&sigb=13b4s7t4r&sigi=1209rsds2&.crumb=DZdcdi./zr9 wounded Guthrie]; [http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A0PDoS4N._VPLjIAmzSJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Djudge%2Bguthrie%2B2000ad%26n%3D30%26ei%3Dutf-8%26y%3DSearch%26fr%3Dyfp-t-701%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D6&w=250&h=296&imgurl=www.2000adreview.co.uk%2Freviews%2F2006%2Fimages%2F1486%2Fjudge-dredd.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.2000adreview.co.uk%2Freviews%2F2006%2F2000ad_1486_review.shtml&size=32.9+KB&name=Guthrie+stretches+the+rule+book...&p=judge+guthrie+2000ad&oid=8b3e5d3ad3d88040ce6e9a8dec934974&fr2=&fr=yfp-t-701&rw=judge+guthrie+2000+ad&tt=Guthrie%2Bstretches%2Bthe%2Brule%2Bbook...&b=0&ni=84&no=6&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=1231r5v28&sigb=13ooj4fpt&sigi=11ve7um3u&.crumb=DZdcdi./zr9 older Guthrie]; [http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A0PDoS4N._VPLjIAnjSJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Djudge%2Bguthrie%2B2000ad%26n%3D30%26ei%3Dutf-8%26y%3DSearch%26fr%3Dyfp-t-701%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D9&w=350&h=153&imgurl=www.2000adreview.co.uk%2Freviews%2F2006%2Fimages%2F1487%2Fjudge-dredd.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.2000adreview.co.uk%2Freviews%2F2006%2F2000ad_1487_review.shtml&size=27.1+KB&name=Guthrie+and+Dredd+get+ready+to+break+some+heads&p=judge+guthrie+2000ad&oid=7e5445b0328dbee83a105d57e2f54ba4&fr2=&fr=yfp-t-701&rw=judge+guthrie+2000+ad&tt=Guthrie%2Band%2BDredd%2Bget%2Bready%2Bto%2Bbreak%2Bsome%2Bheads&b=0&ni=84&no=9&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=123of80d1&sigb=13on34qgd&sigi=11vhajd5b&.crumb=DZdcdi./zr9 another older Guthrie]; [http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A0PDoS4N._VPLjIAmDSJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Djudge%2Bguthrie%2B2000ad%26n%3D30%26ei%3Dutf-8%26y%3DSearch%26fr%3Dyfp-t-701%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D3&w=250&h=245&imgurl=www.2000adreview.co.uk%2Freviews%2F2006%2Fimages%2F1485%2Fjudge-dredd.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.2000adreview.co.uk%2Freviews%2F2006%2F2000ad_1485_review.shtml&size=21.3+KB&name=Guthrie%26%2339%3Bs+new+look...&p=judge+guthrie+2000ad&oid=6dc0700250b535b3c7d0982e98f43669&fr2=&fr=yfp-t-701&rw=judge+guthrie+2000+ad&tt=Guthrie%2526%252339%253Bs%2Bnew%2Blook...&b=0&ni=84&no=3&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=1233dq0c9&sigb=13olj709e&sigi=11v2inhvo&.crumb=DZdcdi./zr9 cyborg Guthrie]; and [http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A0PDoS4N._VPLjIAmTSJzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTBlMTQ4cGxyBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1n?back=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Djudge%2Bguthrie%2B2000ad%26n%3D30%26ei%3Dutf-8%26y%3DSearch%26fr%3Dyfp-t-701%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D4&w=300&h=198&imgurl=www.2000adreview.co.uk%2Freviews%2F2005%2Fimages%2F1445%2Fjudge_dredd.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.2000adreview.co.uk%2Freviews%2F2005%2F2000ad_1445_review.shtml&size=26.5+KB&name=Guthrie+picks+a+fight&p=judge+guthrie+2000ad&oid=0971b05fee42d5742e54efb326616685&fr2=&fr=yfp-t-701&rw=judge+guthrie+2000+ad&tt=Guthrie%2Bpicks%2Ba%2Bfight&b=0&ni=84&no=4&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=123o6p0ve&sigb=13oltpilb&sigi=11vqmh5p2&.crumb=DZdcdi./zr9 younger Guthrie]. In all of these (and remember, these are just the first pics that come up in a Yahoo search - if I could scan my copies of The Pit and all the other progs Guthrie's been in, you'd see it even more clearly), Guthrie is obviously depicted as white. For pete's sake, in the last one he's being restrained by a black Judge! So there should really be no argument about Guthrie's skin colour here, should there? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.109.211.25 (talk) 20:46, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

:::OK I agree that artists in later stories have depicted him as white but I don't see why you think he is white in The Pit. I won't hold it against you that you can't scan those right now but there is a picture from his first appearance is right here on this article. And he's black in the other episodes of that story too. Richard75 (talk) 00:39, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

::::No, sorry, he's right. In The Pit Guthrie's appearance as part of the Wally Squad is either make-up or face-changing (no more of a stretch than assuming his hair is dyed; less, in fact, as you have no evidence he's dyed his hair but we do have evidence he's changed his appearance (if not his skin colour) for his undercover role). He appears a light shade of black when he first approaches Dredd. He then is white after that (even while hiding out in the prison from the two corrupt Judges) - there's a big shot of him cuffed by Dredd and the two Judges' skin tones are identical. Like the poster above said, do you think Dredd is meant to be black? Then he appears black again in a single shot when pushed into the Sector House by Dredd in the prog following that. However, from that point on, in every single appearance, Guthrie's shown to be white.

::::Inconsistent? Sure. But Guthrie has been predominantly identified as white, he's white in The Pit and in all other stories following, and therefore you must accept that he is white. End of argument (hopefully). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.162.199.218 (talk) 13:09, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

I have protected the page for a week to put an end to the constant edit-warring over this issue. Since this has proved to be contentious, you must provide reliable sources that support either position (which means more than simply looking at the comic) or it must be left out of the article. Parsecboy (talk) 13:10, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Since the last protection expired, further edit warring has taken place. I have protected the article for 2 weeks and suggest that this issue is discussed further. The dispute resolution noticeboard would be a good place to go. ItsZippy ^{(talk • contributions)} 15:50, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

:There's little to talk about. See the posts above. Guthrie is clearly identified as white in 99% of the comics, in his original appearance, and in all of the images that pop up when you search for him in Google or Yahoo. This protection is unnecessary. We just need to ban the troll who keeps reverting without explanation and who recently has insulted other users, not read the talk page, and lied about his reasoning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.162.199.218 (talk) 16:18, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

::Thanks for the message. I have restored the article to its pre-edit war state, according to WP:PREFER. I will also unprotect the article; if the IP editor keeps reverting after this, they can be blocked for violating 3RR, and if they continue longer-term, I suggest you follow to steps to deal with disruptive editors. I think I probably got this wrong when I first looked at it; apologies for that. ItsZippy ^{(talk • contributions)} 16:46, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

:::No problem, thanks for your help. Hopefully the reverting won't happen again.

I've semi protected the page for a couple of weeks - you seem to be suffering from a persistent IP editor trying to make a point. Apologies if this inconveniences genuine new and IP editors - please post your edit request here and one of the regulars can make the change for you. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 14:33, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

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