Talk:Kidney failure

40px This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Np2021, David 21, Szarnke, Nsayed2, WikiTweeks11, Dkrishnan97. Peer reviewers: Np2021, David 21.

{{small|Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 01:46, 17 January 2022 (UTC)}}

Hello, we are a group of medical students editing this page as part of a class assignment. We have compiled a list of suggestions to improve this article and would appreciate community feedback before we proceed with these edits. Here is a list of our suggestions:

We propose to insert the following content into the Kidney Failure#treatment section:

1) Prevention of Progression to End-Stage Renal Disease (ESRD)

"A 2014 review of forty studies concluded that people who received early referrals (one to six months before the start of dialysis) to a nephrology specialist displayed reduced mortality, better uptake of dialysis, and reduced hospitalization.{{Cite journal|last=Smart|first=Neil A.|last2=Dieberg|first2=Gudrun|last3=Ladhani|first3=Maleeka|last4=Titus|first4=Thomas|date=2014-06-18|title=Early referral to specialist nephrology services for preventing the progression to ESRD|url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Early+referral+to+specialist+nephrology+services+for+preventing+the+progression+to+end-stage+kidney+disease|journal=The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews|issue=6|pages=CD007333|doi=10.1002/14651858.CD007333.pub2|issn=1469-493X|pmid=24938824}} The authors highlighted the resulting importance of early referral in preventing progression to ESRD. "

"Other methods of reducing a person’s progression to ESRD include minimizing their exposure to nephrotoxins such as NSAIDS and intravenous contrast.{{Cite book|url=http://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?aid=1145435499|title=Current Medical Diagnosis & Treatment 2018|last=Dirkx|first=Tonja C.|last2=Woodell|first2=Tyler|last3=Watnick|first3=Suzanne|date=2017|publisher=McGraw-Hill Education|editor-last=Papadakis|editor-first=Maxine A.|location=New York, NY|editor-last2=McPhee|editor-first2=Stephen J.|editor-last3=Rabow|editor-first3=Michael W.}}

:{{color|green|Can you explain what a nephrotoxin is here in lay terms?JenOttawa (talk) 01:38, 9 November 2017 (UTC)}}

“In non-diabetics and people with type 1 diabetes, a limited protein diet is found to have a preventative effect on progression to ESRD. However, this effect does not apply to people with type 2 diabetes.{{Cite journal|last=Rughooputh|first=Mahesh Shumsher|last2=Zeng|first2=Rui|last3=Yao|first3=Ying|date=2015|title=Protein Diet Restriction Slows Chronic Kidney Disease Progression in Non-Diabetic and in Type 1 Diabetic Patients, but Not in Type 2 Diabetic people: A Meta-Analysis of Randomized Controlled Trials Using Glomerular Filtration Rate as a Surrogate|url=https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Protein+Diet+Restriction+Slows+Chronic+Kidney+Disease+Progression+in+Non-Diabetic+and+in+Type+1+Diabetic+Patients,+but+Not+in+Type+2+Diabetic+Patients:+A+Meta-Analysis+of+Randomized+Controlled+Trials+Using+Glomerular+Filtration+Rate+as+a+Surrogate|journal=PloS One|volume=10|issue=12|pages=e0145505|doi=10.1371/journal.pone.0145505|issn=1932-6203|pmc=PMC4692386|pmid=26710078}} "

:Use "people" instead of individualsJenOttawa (talk) 03:57, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Nsayed2 (talk) 15:17, 15 November 2017 (UTC)Thank you for the feedback. We have made the changes to number 1 and will go live with it shortly.

2) Dialysis

"Dialysis is currently used to extend the lives of hundreds of thousands of patients with ESRD.{{Cite book|url=http://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?aid=1120809618|title=Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine|last=Liu|first=Kathleen D.|last2=Chertow|first2=Glenn M.|date=2015|publisher=McGraw-Hill Education|editor-last=Kasper|editor-first=Dennis|edition=19|location=New York, NY|editor-last2=Fauci|editor-first2=Anthony|editor-last3=Hauser|editor-first3=Stephen|editor-last4=Longo|editor-first4=Dan|editor-last5=Jameson|editor-first5=J. Larry|editor-last6=Loscalzo|editor-first6=Joseph}} AKI typically does not require dialysis except when there is pre-existing CKD.{{Cite book|url=http://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?aid=1120809453|title=Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine|last=Waikar|first=Sushrut S.|last2=Bonventre|first2=Joseph V.|date=2015|publisher=McGraw-Hill Education|editor-last=Kasper|editor-first=Dennis|edition=19|location=New York, NY|editor-last2=Fauci|editor-first2=Anthony|editor-last3=Hauser|editor-first3=Stephen|editor-last4=Longo|editor-first4=Dan|editor-last5=Jameson|editor-first5=J. Larry|editor-last6=Loscalzo|editor-first6=Joseph}} Currently, there are no studies which have compared the outcomes of hemodialysis to peritoneal dialysis. However, based on reporting, both forms of dialysis appear to be equally effective. The choice of therapy may be selected based upon considerations of patient preference and quality of life."

:Word "currently" see comments belowJenOttawa (talk) 03:57, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

3) Transplantation

"Kidney transplantation is a primary treatment option for advanced chronic kidney failure. The 1-year survival rate for patients who receive a kidney from a living donor (living-donor graft) is 96%, while the 1-year survival rate for patients who receive a kidney from a deceased donor (deceased-donor graft) is 92%.{{Cite book|url=http://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?aid=1120809701|title=Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine|last=Azzi|first=Jamil|last2=Milford|first2=Edgar L.|last3=Sayegh|first3=Mohamed H.|last4=Chandraker|first4=Anil|date=2015|publisher=McGraw-Hill Education|editor-last=Kasper|editor-first=Dennis|edition=19|location=New York, NY|editor-last2=Fauci|editor-first2=Anthony|editor-last3=Hauser|editor-first3=Stephen|editor-last4=Longo|editor-first4=Dan|editor-last5=Jameson|editor-first5=J. Larry|editor-last6=Loscalzo|editor-first6=Joseph}}"

4) Treatment for AKI

“The treatment of AKI comprises varying possibilities, depending on individual cases, and includes diuretics, nutritional support, and dialysis. Overall, its primary goal is to hasten recovery and minimize complications and progression of the disease.{{Cite book|url=http://accessmedicine.mhmedical.com/content.aspx?aid=1145435499|title=Current Medical Diagnosis & Treatment 2018|last=Dirkx|first=Tonja C.|last2=Woodell|first2=Tyler|last3=Watnick|first3=Suzanne|date=2017|publisher=McGraw-Hill Education|editor-last=Papadakis|editor-first=Maxine A.|location=New York, NY|editor-last2=McPhee|editor-first2=Stephen J.|editor-last3=Rabow|editor-first3=Michael W.}}"

:{{color|green|Can you simplify your first sentence by saying, "There are many different treatment approaches for AKI, including a,b,c." Please include a citation after every sentence, even if it is from the same source. You may also simplify the second sentence. Many ways to do this, one idea could be to remove "Overall", and just write, "The primary goal of treatment is to...."JenOttawa (talk) 01:34, 9 November 2017 (UTC)}}

Thank you very much for your time and we appreciate any feedback or suggestions you may have!

{{reflist-talk}}

WikiTweeks11 (talk) 02:42, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

:Thanks for asking for feedback - here is some:

:* nothing is "current" or "recent" in Wikipedia, as articles have no datelines. See WP:RELTIME.

:* We don't talk about "patients" but rather "people" or "people with X". Per WP:MEDMOS.

:* per WP:MEDREV, if something comes from a high quality MEDRS source and is not contested by other high quality sources, you don't need to attribute it. You can just say it as fact. The only reason to attribute in such a situation, is to give a date. So the first example you give could be simply: "People with impaired kidney function who received early referrals to a nephrology specialist had reduced mortality, better uptake of dialysis, and reduced hospitalization; the earlier the referral the better the outcome." OR "A 2014 review found that people with..."

:* "Other methods of reducing a patient’s progression to ESRD include intravenous contrast " does not make sense.

:I am stopping here. Please revise per these suggestions and review that the content makes sense and accurately summarizes the sources before reposting. Jytdog (talk) 03:38, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

::References to books should have page numbers. David notMD (talk) 04:34, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Nsayed2 (talk) 15:21, 15 November 2017 (UTC) Thank you for the feedback David notMD. We have made changes to the first part of our suggested changes and are going live with it. We will make revisions to the other parts in the coming days.

The above two entities are completely different: this article covers the two entities resulting in failure. It should not address chronic kidney disease, which has 5 stages, 4 of which are not kidney failure, but impaired kidney function. Thus my edits changing "disease" to "failure". IiKkEe (talk) 15:51, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

There is some recent literature on the relationships between kidney failure, heat stress, and climate change, for instance:

• {{url|https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31203298/}}

This is certainly not my area, so I am just flagging the issue for others more qualified to consider. With best wishes, RobbieIanMorrison (talk) 19:59, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

I am merging the renal failure index article here without discussion as it seems uncontroversial to me. Darcyisverycute (talk) 04:50, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi all,

I've made some contributions to the Kidney Failure article to improve clarity and provide practical, sourced information. The changes include:

Added a new section: "Methods for Estimating GFR" — covers Cockcroft-Gault, MDRD, CKD-EPI, Bedside Schwartz (for pediatrics), and direct measurement techniques.

Included an external link to a publicly available creatinine clearance calculator (CrClCalculator.net) to support practical use.

Added citation needed tags where existing claims lacked references to encourage verification and reliability.

All edits aim to maintain a neutral, informative tone and improve the article's medical accuracy for both lay readers and professionals. Feedback and improvements are welcome!

Thanks! Krishnapd71 (talk) 11:18, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

:Could you please remove the unnecessary bolding added in these edits?[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kidney_failure&diff=1289718002&oldid=1288009347]. Chronos.Zx (talk) 12:18, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

:You've added tons of content, and verifying everything will take time. Chronos.Zx (talk) 12:20, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

:I've fixed several issues, but further improvements are still needed. I'll try to work on them when I have free time unless other editors step in to help [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kidney_failure&diff=1289724992&oldid=1289718002] Chronos.Zx (talk) 12:41, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

:CrClCalculator.net is obvious linkspam, and I have removed it - again. MrOllie (talk) 13:17, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

::And as a look further, several of the ref links are broken or go to unrelated papers. I would guess this was AI-generated text with hallucinated references. MrOllie (talk) 13:59, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

::Thanks MrOllie, could you please also verify those citations added by Krishnapd71. I'm quite busy today and unable to verify all of them. Chronos.Zx (talk) 13:59, 10 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Thank you for that and i don't think crclcalculator.net is a spam external link. and i think there should be the methods by which user can calculate their kidney function status. there are many citations to be added but i was quite busy so i left to add them today. so can you please rool back and give me some time if you find something unusal them you can perform the deletion. Krishnapd71 (talk) 02:33, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

::::You have been spamming it onto multiple articles, therefore it is a spam link: spamming is a behavior, and one you need to stop. I checked your citations, and the links did not go to where the citations claimed they would. Rolling back to content with citations that fail verification would not be an improvement to the encyclopedia, so that is not an option. These papers you cited don't seem to actually exist. For example, the PMID number you entered for "The Bedside Schwartz equation for GFR in children" goes to a paper about Cochleostomy. The attached DOI goes nowhere. I can find no evidence that a paper titled "The Bedside Schwartz equation for GFR in children" exists - and I checked all the issues of that journal for the year of the citation. So the question is: why are there apparently fake citations in the content you added? - MrOllie (talk) 02:49, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::previous I copy the template and I paste and I was editing the citation its was taking time to verify give me some time I am sure you won't regret Krishnapd71 (talk) 03:22, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::That's not an answer. I'll repeat the question: Why are there apparently fake citations in the content you added? MrOllie (talk) 03:23, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::Sorry For careless, I copy the Wikipedia Template Code And paste from other pages so that i can change link and due to busy time I keep as It and Go. You May Please Check This, Finally All Sources are research and verify. Still You Think I am A spammer You may block me Thank You.

:::::Schwartz Equation for Glomerular Filtration Rate

:::::Dr. George J. Schwartz

:::::Primary Reference - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19158356/

:::::Validation: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20652327/

:::::Cockcroft-Gault Equation

:::::Dr. Donald Cockcroft , Donald W. Cockcroft

:::::Primary References: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1244564/

:::::CKD-EPI Equations

:::::Dr. Andrew S. Levey, Dr. Lesley A. Inker, The CKD Epidemiology Collaboration (CKD-EPI)

:::::Primary References:

:::::https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19414839/

:::::https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22762315/

:::::https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34554658/

:::::MDRD GFR Equation

:::::Dr. Andrew S. Levey

:::::Primary References: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10075613/

:::::Validation:

:::::https://hero.epa.gov/hero/index.cfm/reference/details/reference_id/658418

:::::https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/0003-4819-141-12-200412210-00009?volume=141&issue=12&page=929#FN

:::::https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/0003-4819-145-4-200608150-00004?volume=145&issue=4&page=247& Krishnapd71 (talk) 03:41, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::The false citations you added were clearly not part of any template code or from other pages. MrOllie (talk) 03:48, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::I have generate the code template from chatgpt. so that i can change reference link and author and publish. Krishnapd71 (talk) 03:53, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Do not use chatgpt (or any other LLM) to generate content or citations for Wikipedia. As you have just learned, those programs frequently return false information. MrOllie (talk) 03:55, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::Thanks For Your guidance. This Mistake let me learn more and know more about Wikipedia as beginner I became Confuse about using Wikipedia codes that's why I used It. I have added Methods for Estimating GFR with proper citation. You may please verify. And also verify the external tool if it not needed you may remove. Thank You Krishnapd71 (talk) 04:14, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::@Krishnapd71, [{{TQ|.. You may block me... }}] No, please note that Mrollie is not an admin, so he cannot sanction you. But his concerns are valid. The link to CrClCalculator.net appears promotional and may be considered spam under Wiki guidelines. Chronos.Zx (talk) 04:18, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::Dear Chronos.Zx I don't Think Its Spam You May verify Tool. And Its Calculation.

:::::::::AS Wikipedia guidance we can add external link of those sites that provides information which can't be added to Wikipedia. So The Practical Calculation Of Tool can't be added to Wikipedia. That's why I Think Its Not a Spam. Other Wise You May Validate. Krishnapd71 (talk) 04:23, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::No, 'Wikipedia guidance' does not allow you to edit war to try to force links into the article, nor does it allow you to systematically add this to multiple pages as you have been attempting to do. MrOllie (talk) 12:09, 11 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::Thank You Due To Your Ego I don't Know Why You also delete Methods of Estimation. Or you don't know about health care. Nor You Don't Know To see The references and Evidence. I respect Your Ego But you are not a good editor. It was Ok to delete the links, but You show your Ego Deleting Methods too. You not only delete the Methods of Estimation You Delete mine Hard work too. Thank You Mr. Krishnapd71 (talk) 14:00, 12 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::I'm not the one here putting AI-written waffle into the article. That's the AI's hard work. MrOllie (talk) 00:25, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::Man You Should verify once then say Krishnapd71 (talk) 15:12, 13 May 2025 (UTC)