Talk:List of oldest universities in continuous operation

I propose to change the title of this article to "List of oldest European universities in continuous operation" for the reasons cited by others here.

By its current design this article gives the false impression that Europeans invented higher learning, whereas in many ways these European universities were modeled on existing institutions from Africa, Asia and Islamic Iberia.

The article states that by definition the institution must be European or derived from the European model -- "To be included in the list, the university must have been founded prior to 1500 in Europe or be the oldest university derived from the medieval European model". This by nature excludes any institution existing elsewhere in the world prior to the founding of a European university. That should be reflected in the title of this article. Suncanon (talk) 13:23, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

:The article lists the oldest universities in countries around the world, not just in Europe, so the proposed wording is misleading. The article also makes it clear that higher learning and higher education institutions predating the university model existed in other places (including earlier European models) and, indeed, in the schools that became organised to form the first universities in Bologna, Paris and Oxford (where the date given here is when they took on the form of a university, not the date of first teaching in the schools that would go on to form the university).

:Possibly a title asking the lines of "the oldest universities following the European model in continuous operation" would be more specific. However, as all universities around the world follow the European model and that is what is meant by 'university', this may be unnecessarily complex and tautologous. The issue only arises in the context of historical higher education institutions that are sometimes referred to anachronistically as universities due to that being the standard modern form of higher education institution; but, as this page is specifically about historical development, making this distinction clear might be useful. Robminchin (talk) 14:42, 27 March 2025 (UTC)

Until 1167, Oxford was not university, but a simple Cathedral school. Almost every archbishopry had a cathedral school since the Caroling era.--Tubenoon (talk) 16:08, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

:You will notice that the article gives Oxford as being a university from somewhere in 1200–1214, consistent with academic sources that say this is when it took on the character of a university. Also note that while Oxford was a collection of schools until the early 13th century, it was not a cathedral school and the city did not gain a cathedral until after the Reformation. Cambridge still does not have a cathedral - that the English universities were not based around cathedrals is a significant difference between them and many continental universities of similar ages. Robminchin (talk) 17:21, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

The University of Oxford officially gained its university status only through a papal bull (a formal charter).

Historical Background:

Oxford was already an important educational center by the late 12th century, but it formally became a university only in 1248 when Pope Innocent IV issued a bull recognizing Oxford as a studium generale (university).

This papal decree granted the university the right to confer degrees (grant academic titles) and ensured its international recognition.

Why was the papal bull important?

In the Middle Ages, establishing a university required a charter from either the Pope or the Holy Roman Emperor. In Oxford's case, papal recognition was the decisive step in gaining official university status in Europe.

Thus, the University of Oxford would not have been formally recognized as a university in Europe without the papal bull.

--Tubenoon (talk) 17:21, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

:Oxford never gained a papal bull recognising it as a studium generale, although one in 1254 did recognise it as a scholarly community. Cambridge got one in 1318, which is seen s recognising that it was a studium generale rather than establishing it as such. Both universities were established prior to the need for papal recognition. Oxford did receive a royal charter in 1248, confirming rights and privileges of the university with respect to the town rather than creating a university. The closest you can get to a charter for Oxford is the legatine bull of 1214, which (among other things) established the chancellorship. Robminchin (talk) 17:30, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

Before the existence of protestantism, Royal charters (and orders) had no such authority to recognize a university. Especially an English king who was very low rank in medieval European royal community.--Tubenoon (talk) 17:57, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

:You appear to be going off-topic. Remember that the talk page is for discussions about editing the article, not discussions about the subject of the article. Also, learn some history and stop posting nonsense. Robminchin (talk) 18:32, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

::ISBN: 9780521021869, 0521021863

::Page count: 388

::Published: January 11, 2007

::Format: Paperback

::Publisher: Cambridge University Press

::Language: English

::Author: Alan B. Cobban

::PAGE: 40

::This book write about papal recognition of Oxford university. And how Oxford asked the popes to call them "studio generlia", and when did it get this status.

::Checkmate! Tubenoon (talk) 20:13, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

:::I suggest you read the page you just posted.[https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_King_s_Hall_Within_the_University_of/SrpLKBBf1MYC?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA40&printsec=frontcover] It's actually about Cambridge, but does mention in passing that Oxford never received papal recognition as a studium generale but held the status ex consuetudine (by custom). Or, in other words, the exact opposite of what you are claiming. Robminchin (talk) 21:20, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

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Genoa University was founded in the XIV century when it started conferring degrees in law, theology, medicine and arts. It was officially promulgated in 1481

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Genoa 78.210.108.139 (talk) 11:37, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:It has not been in continuous operation. ElKevbo (talk) 11:55, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

::it had no teaching between 1821 and 1823 and again between 1830 and 1835, a grand totalof 7 years... most of the universities listed have been closed for way longer, starting from the university of Padua which was closed in 1237–1261, 1509–1517, 1848–1850 and the university of Napkes, which was closed and refounded multiple times with decades in between at times 78.209.2.181 (talk) 16:36, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:::The second table in the article lists "Oldest universities by country or region after 1500 still in operation." If an institution is missing that should be there, please add it! If an institution is included that should not be there, please remove it! ElKevbo (talk) 19:30, 7 June 2025 (UTC)