Talk:List of vegans#Images
{{Skip to talk}}
{{Talk header|disclaimer=no|bottom=yes}}
{{Round in circles |search=no |canvassing=yes}}
{{Old AfD multi |date=31 August 2019 |result=keep |page=List of vegans (2nd nomination) |date2=24 September 2020 |result2=No consensus |page2=List of vegetarians (4th nomination) |date3=9 March 2025 |result3=Speedy keep |page3=List of vegans (3rd nomination)}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=List|blp=yes|collapsed=y|
{{WikiProject Animal rights |importance=High}}
{{WikiProject Food and drink |importance=High}}
{{WikiProject Lists |class=List |importance=High}}
{{WikiProject Veganism and Vegetarianism|importance=High}}
}}
{{onlinesource|year=2006
|section=March 11-20
|title=An ethical diet: The joy of being vegan
|org=The Independent
|url=http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/reviews/an-ethical-diet-the-joy-of-being-vegan-469964.html
|date=March 15, 2006}}
{{User:MiszaBot/config
|archiveheader = {{Talk archive}}
|algo = old(91d)
|maxarchivesize = 100K
|minthreadsleft = 3
|minthreadstoarchive = 1
|counter = 6
|archive = Talk:List of vegans/Archive %(counter)d
}}
Former/disputed
=Former=
List of former vegans. This list is maintained here to help prevent outdated information being returned to the article.
{{reflist-talk|1=close}}
=Mistaken/disputed=
{{reflist-talk|1=close}}
=Unsourced/insufficiently sourced=
| class="wikitable sortable plainrowheaders" |
| scope="col" style="width:10em;"|Name
! scope="col" class="unsortable" |Occupation ! scope="col" style="width:8em;" |Birthplace ! scope="col" class="unsortable" style="width:8em;"|Source |
|---|
| scope="row" | Sue Donaldson
|Philosopher |Canada |{{fact|date=August 2023}} |
| scope="row" | {{sortname|Adam |Gnade|Adam Gnade (writer)}}
|Fiction author |United States |{{fact|date=May 2013}} |
| scope="row" | {{sortname|Chân |Không}}
|Buddhist nun |Vietnam |{{cn|date=September 2018}} |
| scope="row" | {{sortname|Pete |Kowalsky}}
|Musician |United States |
| scope="row" | {{sortname|Sinéad |O'Connor}}
|Singer-songwriter |Ireland |https://viva.org.uk/lifestyle/living-vegan/celebrities/musicians/sinead-oconnor/https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/sinead-oconnor-begs-fans-for-food-amid-agoraphobia-battle/CMFTRHYJLRAAW2ZWHYP7MGT5GE/ |
| scope="row" | R.A.M.B.O.
|Musicians |United States |
| scope="row" | {{sortname|Billy |West}}
|Voice actor |United States |Futurama Season 4, Twentieth Century Fox, 2002.{{cite AV media|date=2007-09-23 |title=Billy West on Geekza!|trans-title=Billy West, Ren, Stimpy, and Geekza. |url=http://www.geekza.com/?p=147 |access-date=2008-07-06 |archive-url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sinRIoVygCI |archive-date=2011-02-17}} |
{{reflist-talk|1=close}}
Definition of vegan
Betty Logan & Strugglehouse - Please discuss here and explain your reasoning for wanting to redefine the meaning of the word "veganism", when it's well-established that it extends beyond just diet. I'd like to hear thoughts from Psychologist Guy and Veg Historian on this too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bens dream (talk • contribs) 14:26, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:There are many definitions of vegan, nobody has a monopoly on what a vegan is. The one thing all definitions have in common is that vegans do not consume animal produce (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/veganism). Since this page only covers dietary veganism it makes sense to emphasize that characteristic, as that is ultimately the inclusion criteria. Betty Logan (talk) 14:38, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::Right, so you'd better go and update the intro for the Wikipedia article on veganism to align with your view then, because that is VERY clear in the definition: "abstaining from the use of animal products and the consumption of animal source foods". It's not just dietary, it has never just been dietary, and it will never be just dietary. See also the OED (https://www.oed.com/dictionary/vegan_n2?tl=true) which is a far more trustworthy source than Merriam Webster. If you want to use your definition then you need to update the page to be "List of dietary vegans" to avoid misleading people. Bens dream (talk) 14:43, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:::It seems that you didn't actually read Veganism#Definition. Quotes: "Distinctions may be made between several categories of veganism. ... Since 1988, The Vegan Society gives two definitions of veganism ..." Please read and understand that section. It's not as simple as you seem to think. — Chrisahn (talk) 15:24, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Regardless of the definition and whether you think wool counts (it does), Billie Eilish also consumes honey, so she is provably not vegan, therefore needs to be removed from the list. Bens dream (talk) 15:32, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::Billie Eilish is not vegan because she consumes honey; a source on that here [https://aretheyvegan.com/billieeilish/], "Unfortunately, there’s one animal product that Billie still consumes: honey. In an interview in March 2019, she explained that her mother gives it to her when she gets sick. So, her mother always brings it with her on tour. Billie seemed unaware that honey isn’t vegan". The March 2019 interview is on YouTube and it checks out. You cannot be vegan and eat honey so she should be removed from the list. If we have any sourcing describing any of those on the list eating dairy, eggs, meat or honey then they should be removed. Veg Historian (talk) 15:49, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::Thank you for being the only person speaking sense here. I'll take as many blocks as it gets, I am not willing to have her mar the name of vegans by being listed here. Bens dream (talk) 15:56, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::Honey is a controversial issue within veganism. Most definitions exclude it from the diet, but historically veganism was a vegetarian diet that only excluded dairy and eggs. Wikipedia is a not an arbiter of what is vegan or not. Betty Logan (talk) 15:56, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::No one excludes honey from the definition apart from people who have no idea what veganism is. She is not being included here. Bens dream (talk) 15:58, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Well, I wouldn't say you have no idea what veganism is, but your ideas are clearly wrong. Veganism#Insect products: "Vegan groups disagree about insect products." — Chrisahn (talk) 16:01, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Right, well you're moving the goalposts here. You started saying it was only dietary, now you're debating what is and isn't included in the scope of dietary. She is not being included here, full stop. Bens dream (talk) 16:03, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::Bens Dream, you appear to have a very peculiar idea as to how Wikipedia works. Individual contributors do not have a veto on content. I suggest you familiarise yourself with how content issues are actually resolved here before commenting any further. You should start by reading WP:RS. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:06, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
- Bens dream, we will resolve this issue much sooner if you ceased edit-warring and focused fully on presenting your case here on the talk page. The current wording has been in place for well over a decade; there was a major re-write in 2014, but since then it has been stable for most of that time. The transitions can be viewed here:
- [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_vegans&oldid=588192193] – IMO the original wording was strongest. It was sourced and made it explicit this list was about dietray vegans only. I would be happy to go back to this version.
- There was a sentiment that the list was getting into something that was best left to the Veganism article so the lede was scrapped and just turned into a simple sentence: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_vegans&diff=prev&oldid=606572102]. For the record, I would be happy with this too.
- Following some further discussions a few months later, this version was installed: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_vegans&diff=prev&oldid=624233763], which was ultimately refined to the current version, more or less: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_vegans&diff=624243319&oldid=624234344].
: Personally I would be happy to revert back to one of the earlier versions. I would suggest the simple one-sentence version, since once we get into defining stuff it seems somebody always gets upset, and frankly I would rather live without the hassle. Betty Logan (talk) 15:53, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
::The definition used on the article is very clear "Veganism involves following a vegan diet, which is a diet that includes no animal products of any kind". We can keep it that simple; it has worked well for years for the criteria for this list. We do not need to change it. Basically if we have any reliable sourcing for anyone on the list consuming animals or animal byproducts of any kind including dairy, eggs, meat, sea creatures, gelatine, honey etc then they should be removed from the list. Very simple. Bens dream has been indef blocked but the user was correct over the Billie Eilish example. She does consume honey and we have some sourcing on that, so by the criteria used for the list she shouldn't be on it.
::But it's not worth getting involved in an edit war over this. It looks like there is a consensus to keep her on the list. It is probably best to adopt a "wait and see position" until we have more sourcing on her. She can removed later down the line if we have more WP:RS on her honey consumption. Veg Historian (talk) 18:24, 13 March 2025 (UTC)
Organisation of the list
Someone should add Helen Hill
Title 46.132.88.59 (talk) 23:00, 8 May 2025 (UTC)