Talk:Man#RFC: image in article

I think the article would benefit from some information about how men vary in their preferred gender expressions, i.e. they can be hegemonically masculine, simply masculine, androgynous, feminine. Sources that can be used for the statement include Connell's Masculinities, the article Gender expression in The SAGE Encyclopedia in Trans Studies, the book Male femininities, and Luke Andrew Boso's article Real Men. This is important not only because it is directly related to the topic of the article, but also because it serves as a preventative measure against the popularization of the fringe theory of gender essentialism, according to which men are supposedly naturally masculine.--Reprarina (talk) 16:05, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Why do non English versions of the article man have images of influential men grouped as one and the lead page?

Is it sexist to put the combined images of influential men as the lead image representative of men? since there are influential women but not as much as influential men? Beneutral100 (talk) 08:42, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

:If it's this article you mean, see the 'Important note' at the top of this page. It says truthfully that the lead image here (and on many other articles) is highly controversial, so it's not a good place to edit.

:If it's a general question, it's not relevant here (this is not a forum), but two things can be said: Wikipedia is not censored, and can show any image that is necesssary, copyright permitting; and people differ widely on what 'influential' might mean, and whether it's a good idea to use images of people in the public eye, not least because (as already mentioned) that's bound to be controversial. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:32, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

::Also, MOS:PEOPLEGALLERY (which may not exist on other Wikipedias) shows that here, the consensus is not to illustrate large groups of people with collages. Crossroads ^-talk- 20:53, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

::If I can elaborate: an ideal lead image would be particularly illustrative of what the article (and ideally, the sum of our reliable sources) has to say about the topic. There is no real justification in my mind that particular "influential" men—either one example image, or a gallery—could adequately serve as this illustration. This is because I don't think one can justify that famous people, or whatever comparable metric we could use, are the most ideal examples for people with any given trait. Given how this topic likely harbors so many intuitions for readers, specific examples, especially expressed visually, are among the most liable to create unjustified assumptions in readers we didn't intend. So, it is less possible than in most cases to provide illustrative examples for this topic that illuminate more than they conceal. Remsense ‥ 论 21:15, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

:Speaking on behalf of all mobile users; squashing tiny thumbnails of Einstein and Ghandi into a 4x4 matrix is worthless from both an aesthetic, informational, and usability perspective. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (talk • stalk) 08:21, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

User:Mwnt888, this has been a stable article for some time. I suggest you get a consensus for changes, especially the US vs UK spelling. Masterhatch (talk)

User:Mwnt888, this article is the result of years of consensus building. While there is always room for improvement, it has reached a point of stability. If you see issues with this article, bring it to talk where it can be discussed. Simply calling it 'obviously politically bias' as you did on my talk page doesn't address any of the issues. Masterhatch (talk) 16:14, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

:This article is written in such a way that it makes it seem as though lots of men stay at home. This is not the case which is why I added ‘the majority of fathers do not stay at home’ which is true.

:Military service has been available to women since WW1 and combat roles have been available to women to women since 2016 however the article is written in a way that makes it seem like this type of job is and always has been available to only men.

:Men and women have equal rights in all developed countries however the article states that in most societies men have more legal rights than women. This is not true.

:There's so many holes in this article Mwnt888 (talk) 10:33, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

::Provide reliable sources for the changes you want to make and we'll go from there. Masterhatch (talk) 18:07, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

::Remember Mwnt, this article is about men worldwide, not just in the UK/US. Now, I do think Mwnt has a good thing we could add: some statistics. The 10-15% of men stay home (if ascribed with a country and year) might make for a helpful addition. So too might the numbers of men going to university (again, with country and year) be used to show demographic shifts in the West. CaptainEek ^{Edits Ho Cap'n!}⚓ 21:02, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

User:Jarble has made a couple of edits I don't think improve the article.

1/

''The male reproductive system's function is to produce semen, which is ejaculated through the penis. Semen contains

The male reproductive system produces semen, which is ejaculated through the penis and contains sperm''

2/

The male reproductive system produces semen, which is ejaculated through the penis and contains sperm that pass from the vagina to the uterus and enter the fallopian tubes to fertilize an egg, which develops into an embryo.

Sperm cells are ejaculated in semen through the penis during sexual intercourse. These cells pass from the vagina to the uterus to enter the fallopian tubes and fertilize an egg, which develops into an embryo.

Of course sperm may be ejaculated and used for reproduction without intercourse.

Also the male reproductive system produces "male sex hormones, primarily testosterone, which are responsible for developing male characteristics and maintaining reproductive function".

We have a paragraph at the bottom of the section which covers testosterone but it needs something like the explanation I have quoted above to tie it in with the reproductive system.

Thoughts? Lukewarmbeer (talk) 08:57, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:{{reply to|Lukewarmbeer}} I tried to make this paragraph more concise without removing or changing too many details. We can edit it again if necessary. Jarble (talk) 01:50, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

:{{reply to|Lukewarmbeer}} Before I rewrote this paragraph, it included these sentences:

{{quote|The male reproductive system's function is to produce semen, which carries sperm and thus genetic information that can unite with an egg within a woman. Since sperm that enters a woman's uterus and then fallopian tubes goes on to fertilize an egg which develops into a fetus or child, the male reproductive system plays no necessary role during the gestation.}}

:Is this version better than the current version because it explains that sperm contains genetic information, that a fetus develops into a child, and that the male reproductive system "plays no necessary role during the gestation?

:I only removed these details because I thought the paragraph was too verbose and long-winded. Jarble (talk) 03:02, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

Some time ago, a study was included that shows that men are at a disadvantage in the West, however, Wikipedia removed it, what I question is this a bias that seeks to see men as privileged?

The Study is:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6317789/

Study Summary: The authors developed the Basic Gender Inequality Index (BIGI), an index that assesses gender inequality in 134 countries, representing 6.8 billion people. Unlike other indices, the BIGI considers three key factors: Healthy life expectancy Overall life satisfaction Educational opportunities in childhood The study found that: In 91 countries, men face more disadvantages than women. In 43 countries, women are in a more disadvantaged position. In nations with high human development, greater gender parity is observed, although with a slight advantage for women. In countries with low human development, women are often at a disadvantage, mainly due to fewer educational opportunities.

This approach provides a more balanced view of gender inequality, recognizing that both men and women may face disadvantages in different contexts.

¿ Marcelapop (talk) 20:54, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

:I am at a loss as to how that even got through peer review. EvergreenFir (talk) 21:25, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

::Could you add this information to the rights and social role section? Marcelapop (talk) 21:49, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

::Misandry is also minimized in the disparity of criminal sentences and, as I mentioned, the disadvantages of men in various countries: "In most societies, men have more legal and cultural rights than women.[46] And misogyny is far more prevalent than misandry in society." Marcelapop (talk) 21:54, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

::I share EF's incredulity. Regardless, it's an avenue of brand new analysis that doesn't seem to have influenced the literature very much. Gender gap index is still used prolifically, and the BIGI has not caught on. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:58, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:::{{u|Marcelapop}}, can you please self-revert and discuss your changes here, rather than repeatedly restoring them over objections? Many of the sources you're citing are poor, dated, or misrepresented. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 18:54, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Marcelapop, I have reverted it for you. But discussing your inclusion is the next step. Zenomonoz (talk) 20:46, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

::This is a primary source study anyway, this seems inappropriate per WP:PSTS. This does seem like a novel interpretation of data. Zenomonoz (talk) 20:44, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

Stop promoting anti-male bias, I'm adding several reliable and verified sources.

I am providing various sources of information. In addition, the article talks about men and men have problems. It is too biased to manipulate the information to victimize women and support the idea that misandry does not exist. There are many empirical studies that support what I say. Marcelapop (talk) 18:51, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:{{u|Marcelapop}} in the conversation above this one, multiple users have asked you to engage in discussion of your inclusion. You are using a primary source, and generally that isn't going to work. Zenomonoz (talk) 21:20, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

::While I don't deny that men have advantages, this article should be fair; it should mention male disadvantages and not just claim that there is "male privilege." Marcelapop (talk) 22:01, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

:::The content you changed did not claim that "there is 'male privilege'", it just linked to the article Male privilege as a "further information" link. The status quo ante was pretty defensibly fair, mentioning both the "advantages" that you acknowledge and some important men's issues. Your version has multiple unaddressed problems, and I again call for you to self-revert so that it can be workshopped. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 22:07, 20 May 2025 (UTC)