Talk:Manta ray#Proposed merger of Manta ray into Mobula

File:MVI 0941.webm

I have a number of videos I took of a manta. Not sure how to edit videos but I have a few that are better but to big to upload here. Drop me a note if you are interested. Anyway was taken during a night dive.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 00:00, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Here is the opening sentence: "Mating takes place at different times of the year in different parts of the manta's range."

Could that statement be any less meaningful or more ambiguous? Sounds like a UK weather forecast. In other words, you have no idea. Therefore, just say nothing. That sentence has a value of zero.

This article is completely fouled up with technobabble and jargon, and full of statements like this... This is what happens when amateurs are allowed to write in public. People, it's OK not to know something. If your reader is left questioning what you just said, then you have effectively said nothing. 98.194.39.86 (talk) 05:10, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Hi. I have read in a few (non academic) articles references to the large brain size, curiousity, social behaviour and apparent high intelligence of Manta Rays (unsourced unfortunately). This is quite an interesting/special and feature of the Manta Ray and not widely known about, if someone better read on manta ray research or at least with better access to journals than me could add a section on this it would really add to the page.

NickPriceNZ (talk) 06:02, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

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This article states the family as Myliobatidae. The article on the two extant species (see species links) give the family as Mobulidae in the article and as Myliobatidae in the box. This should be reconciled for all three articles. Ptilinopus (talk) 23:43, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Furthermore, all manta rays are now classified as part of the mobula genus, after a taxonomic reclassification which took place in 2017, more info on this here:

https://biopixel.tv/mantas-actually-mobula/

Example: Marine Megafauna Foundation page: https://marinemegafauna.org/news-and-media/giant-manta-becomes-the-first-manta-ray-to-be-listed-as-an-endangered-species

The article should be updated to refer to Mobula alfredi and Mobula birostris

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/07/off-the-hook-manta-ray-asks-divers-for-helping-hand/ (referencing and embedding this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp1MT7j7mw4)

Should we add something about this to the article?

Possibly under "relation with humans" or the paragraph of "behavior and ecology" that deals with cleaning stations?

:File:Cypron-Range Manta birostris.svg mentions www.iucnredlist.org as its source but the [https://www.iucnredlist.org/species/195459/68632178 IUCN's 2018 map] is quite different, especially in the Atlantic. Which one is correct? A455bcd9 (talk) 12:33, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

In the "Feeding" section, mantas are described as being "filter feeders as well as macropredators." This sentence is a little ungainly, as "macropredator" can mean simply a very large animal that is a predator (filter feeders are technically predators) or it can mean "apex predator" or an animal that preys on other large animals, which mantas are not. 172.103.208.205 (talk) 04:28, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

"The first manta ray birth in captivity took place there in 2007. Although this pup did not survive, the aquarium has since had the birth of four more manta rays in 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011. However, although Manta became pregnant in 2012, she was stillborn. In 2013, she became pregnant, but her mother, manta ray, died and the pup that was taken out died."

The second half of this looks like an AI wrote it or something; it's completely unintelligible, and seems to think manta and manta ray are the names of two individual rays or something? 2600:1702:2A30:CD0:6815:B0FF:6751:5FEE (talk) 14:36, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

:That text was inserted with [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Manta_ray&diff=prev&oldid=1025770125 this edit] It was an effort by an editor whose first language is probably not English to insert material from a Japanese source, rather than any AI shenanigans. William Avery (talk) 15:59, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

There is a great deal of overlap between these two artcles and there should be a single article covering the genus Mobula. Quetzal1964 (talk) 15:58, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

• Do not merge. :Manta ray is a Feature article]]. The other article is barely a start, and it says that Mobula is "similar to" manta ray. So are they even the same genus? Even if so, it still would not be appropriate to try to merge the two until the information about Mobula is much better developed. -- Ssilvers (talk) 07:47, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
• It's not clear to me whether or not the two things are the same. If manta rays are a type of mobile, then we can have two separate articles on them without any issue (as we have big cat and lion, for example). If they are genuinely synonymous, then per WP:COMMON NAME the correct title is this one, and any content over at the other article not presented here could be carefully and judiciously merged into this featured article. Girth Summit _(blether) 08:23, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
• There can't be that much overlap, Mobula is only about 300 words. CMD (talk) 11:52, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
• Merge By current taxonomic consensus, the two terms are synonymous; all mantas are in the genus Mobula, and there is no separate taxonomic entity "Manta" (the genus was synonymized). There should be only one article. Whether that is achieved by merging Manta ray into Mobula, or by proposing that the former is a sufficiently common name to host the genus article and merging the other way (which might also be preferable wrt authorship preservation), would have to be decided. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 10:55, 31 October 2024 (UTC)
• :Mantas are still a distinct (and monophyletic) group of animals and are recognized as such by the public and scientific community. By this logic, zebras should not have their own article since they share Equus with horses and asses. LittleJerry (talk) 22:58, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose. The genus was only changed this year on Wikipedia, and I note that the IUCN and recent papers still use the genus Manta. I would recommend having a discussion about whether sufficient authorities have accepted the change for us to change, then decide how to organise the article. Also we have plenty of articles about groups of animals that are not distinct clades, so even if we accpt the merged genus it doesn't mean we need to split, given how widely known and used the term manta is. Sabine's Sunbird talk 02:21, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Manta, whether its own genus or not, is a widely recognized common name for two distinct, closely related and formerly taxonomically distinct ray species. Whether those two species fall under the genus Mobula or Manta does not change the fact that in the eyes of both the general public and a number of recently published sources, they are still sufficiently distinct entities. I am instead in favor of removing the list of Mobula species off this page (the only apparent significant overlap) and simply expanding that article to better explain the distinction or lack thereof, rather than merging the two. In their current states, the merged article would still end up being about 90% manta-ray focused, which I feel actually makes it more confusing and difficult to find information on the rest of Mobula. Gasmasque (talk) 21:11, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

:Oppose - The genus and the species itself are two separate things. Merging them would not make sense. Reader of Information (talk) 03:16, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

:Oppose Mantas are still a distinct group of animals even if they are not their own genus. In addition, the article itself is an FA. LittleJerry (talk) 22:54, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

:Oppose per @Gasmasque all of whose points I agree with. And as @LittleJerry points out with Zebra and Equus, there are many examples of articles covering a common name subset of a genus. Sometimes these subsets may not even be monophyletic, for example the case of Raven, Crow, and Corvus (although potentially there is a case that I could support to merge Raven and Crow into Corvus as a result). But that is not the case here as in addition to having a widely-recognized common name the Manta species are monophyletic within the Mobula genus. So I would vote to keep them separate. NicheSports (talk) 22:26, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

“They have the largest brain-to-body ratio of all fish”

Needs fact-checking against Elephantfish, which according to article below has a MUCH higher ratio.

Brain–body mass ratio

”Sharks have one of the highest for fishalongside manta rays (although the electrogenic elephantfish has a ratio nearly 80 times higher—about 1/32, which is slightly higher than that for humans)” 2A01:CB00:484:1F00:2D9E:EAB5:88A8:E050 (talk) 12:01, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

:Suggestion of correction:

:“They have the largest brain-to-body ratio of SALTWATER fish” 2A01:CB00:484:1F00:2D9E:EAB5:88A8:E050 (talk) 12:02, 31 January 2025 (UTC)