Talk:Mauritius#rfc FAAE2DD

The section on the Chagos Archipelago is far too long for this article. Everything other than the first paragraph and maybe a second paragraph summarizing the all other Chagos Archipelago dispute content should be moved to their own respective articles and removed from this article. This article is on the country of Mauritius after all, not the Chagos Archipelago dispute which only forms a a part of that country's biography.--Discott (talk) 09:59, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

:Yes, you are right, i will try to clean it up. Regards --Kingroyos (talk) 15:15, 5 April 2019 (UTC)

{{ping|Discott}}

Thank you !

That's exactly what I have been saying to {{ping|Kingroyos}} for months !

Manish2542 (talk) 19:55, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Dear {{ping|Manish2542}}, needful was already done in April 2019, we are already in August now. You had been removing content in the intro and not in the Chagos Archipelago section. Kingroyos (talk) 05:06, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

"The UK has restricted access to" has an ambiguous meaning and should be changed. It should I think say "The UK has imposed a restricted access to". Right now, it might mean that the UK cannot access it, itself. --User:theredsprite — Preceding undated comment added 22:00, 9 October 2022 (UTC)

{{edit semi-protected|Mauritius|answered=yes}}

Typo in the introduction: change "country African country" to "African country". WikiFouf (talk) 06:44, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

:{{done}} Cannolis (talk) 06:50, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Mauritius Product Exports (2019).svg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:12, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

The one and only source cited in the section "1914–1919: World War I prosperity" contains no mention of WW1, nor of the period 1914-18. 80.3.183.104 (talk) 05:04, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

To elaborate on what I'd written in my edit summary, I removed the sentence {{tq|There are no legal restrictions against homosexuality in Mauritius.}} because, in a general article on Mauritius, in a general section about its legal system, listing that one particular thing is not illegal, out of all the things that are not illegal in that country, or that are legal there, gives that one thing WP:UNDUE emphasis. The entire legal system doesn't exactly revolve around that one non-prohibition, yet the positioning of that sentence in the place in an otherwise general section gives the impression that that is the height of everything that has ever happened in the Mauritian legal system. Its insertion there as though it were of supreme significance in the overall context of the Mauritian legal system is an WP:NPOV violation.

Varoon2542's alternative explanation for my edit, as though the above weren't a valid argument was that it was out of "low-key homophobia". As I've already noted in my edit summary response, I'm gay and have advocated for gay rights for 45 years. This isn't the first time somebody has resorted to attributing hatred of some sort to me as a reason for an edit I made. I (Jewish as well as gay) have been accused here of both homophobia and anti-Semitism for making legitimate edits. Let this be a lesson: hate is sometimes but usually not the reason that people do things you disagree with, so you'd better know what you're talking about before making accusations.

It's worth noting that the language was added in [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mauritius&diff=prev&oldid=1179502536 this edit]. The full text had been {{tq|Mauritius is often described as Africa's most developed country. There are no legal restrictions against homosexuality in Mauritius.}} This was clearly POV, with the second sentence intended to support the first in implying that a lack of legal restrictions on homosexuality is a centerpiece of a developed country. I mean, I think it is{{emdash}}but that's my POV, it doesn't belong in an article. Later, someone removed the first sentence, so that sentence about homosexuality was left dangling without even the original context it had been brought in to support.

The language has now been added and removed twice, so beware of edit warring. Please discuss before restoring it. Largoplazo (talk) 11:41, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

:It is often difficult to figure out exactly how to balance information. The current sentence is cited to news reports directly about the specific law changes in question, and so aren't helpful in assessing WP:DUE. It would be better to have some sources that speak more generally about politics in Mauritius, and see how they assign weight to various topics. CMD (talk) 01:00, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Following Moxy's advise, I'm copy pasting the discussion that Largoplazo brought to my talk page. As a side note, I wasn't the one to include this information here, I merely objected to its removal for dubious reasons given that the same reasoning is not used on articles on France and the United Kingdom, see below

''"== Attributing things blindly to hate ==

Re [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mauritius&oldid=prev&diff=1221320363 your edit here]: I'm gay and I've been active and vocal in supporting gay rights for 45 years, which shows just how reckless this stunt is of attributing everything you don't like to homophobia and other forms of hate despite your having been given the true and perfectly good reason for it. I removed the link for the exact purpose that I stated in my edit summary. Largoplazo (talk) 11:25, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

:I'm a 34 year old gay man, born and bred in Mauritius

:I had to live through homophobia through my teenage years before moving abroad for my studies

:The criminalisation of sodomy was a constant argument for our oppression

:For years, this criminalisation was mentioned in the "legal" segment of the article, there's no reason that the decriminalisation should find no mention

:In 2017, during the gay pride, a muslim cleric, Javed Meeto, took to the streets with 300 of his raging dogs to call for the extermination of homosexuals

:I guess you must be blasé after 45 years of supporting gay rights where you now live openly your sexuality but for us it is still a constant struggle

:I find your reaction extremely uncaring and insulting for us

:You are intruding where you don't belong and that's quite hurtful Varoon2542 (talk) 17:08, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

::You should lay off the attempts at psychoanalysis. You're really bad at it (which should already have occurred to you after our first round, above), and it shows bad faith for you to make up what somebody's dark, unstated motives "must be" to explain their actions here rather than to take at face value their openly declared objective reasons that are based on Wikipedia's purpose and guidelines and unremarkable approaches to organizing an article. Do you find it extraordinary that somebody might oppose something you're doing for completely objective reasons?

::How awful something was for you or for me and how great it is for you or for me that it's no longer that way doesn't mean that any place you choose to stick a mention of it is a good place for it. The legal status of homosexual relations is not a core aspect of how a legal system of a country, Mauritius or any other, is structured. It is a perfectly good thing to mention in a section on human rights in the country. It has nothing to do with "caring", and if you're insulted by the idea that information should be presented in an orderly fashion with attention to context, weight, and relevance; if you find conventional editorial practice hurtful; then you're going to find Wikipedia work on the whole very insulting and hurtful. What's insulting is you to ascribe another editor's actions to adverse intentions.

::Read WP:OWN. There is no place for you to decide which people do or don't belong working on any area of this project. It doesn't follow from your being Mauritian that the article on Mauritius is a place for you to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS and that others don't have editorial input into your contributions there. Largoplazo (talk) 23:58, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

:::Excerpt from "France", section "Law"

:::"France generally has a positive reputation regarding LGBT rights. Since 1999, civil unions for homosexual couples have been permitted, and since 2013, same-sex marriage and LGBT adoption are legal.

:::Excerpt from "United Kingdom", section "Law and criminal justice"

:::"Same-sex marriage has been legal in England, Scotland, and Wales since 2014, and in Northern Ireland since 2020. LGBT equality in the United Kingdom is considered advanced by modern standards"

:::You said

:::"The legal status of homosexual relations is not a core aspect of how a legal system of a country, Mauritius or any other, is structured."

:::Do you still stand by that statement? I'm really tired of hypocrisy Varoon2542 (talk) 13:54, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

::::Yes, I still stand by that statement. Can you just try to have a discussion without resorting to ad hominems and drama?

::::In the France article I wouldn't have jumped directly into the LGBT mention as is currently done there, but a significant difference is that it's included along with other material all of which deals with the relationship that the law has with the people. It should be reorganized a bit by prefacing that part with a cover statement making that point, laying some foundation within which to explain these individual rights including LGBT rights. Then it wouldn't be the same as you had it in the Mauritius article, jumping from Mauritius having this court and that court to a single sentence, presented without foundation, explaining that by the way, they have LGBT rights there. The relationship between the law and the people is a core aspect of the law. LGBT rights fall within that.

::::At least the French article is further along in that regard than the UK article, which also seems to think LGBT rights are the only demographic group rights that are relevant, but at least it gets a little bit into employment rights too. Still, from the point of view of good writing, there should be, again, some higher level foundation than just jumping into random provisions. Largoplazo (talk) 02:03, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

:::::The excerpts that you disapprove of on the articles of France and the United Kingdom are still there. What are you waiting for ? Varoon2542 (talk) 04:56, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

::::::If you believe that taking a position on an issue in one article obligates someone to edit the entire remainder of Wikipedia to make every other article conform to the same position or else to yield, you are mistaken.

::::::I see from the above that you have a history of warnings for edit warring and have been brought up a couple of times on the noticeboard. Do you enjoy that? By now, at least, you should at least know what edit warring is and that it's not approved of. Largoplazo (talk) 12:59, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

:::::::If you believe that taking a position on an issue in one article does not obligate someone to edit the entire remainder of Wikipedia to make every other article conform to the same position or else to yield, you are mistaken.

:::::::You saw from the above that I've been accused of edit warring, had you looked deeper, you would have noticed that most of the assusators have been banned, one even came back from the dead after being banned multiple times.

:::::::Now, the question remains. The excerpts that you disapprove of on the articles of France and the United Kingdom are still there. What are you waiting for ? Varoon2542 (talk) 18:13, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

::::::::It's as though you didn't read my response the first time you asked that. Your premise, that every time someone addresses an issue on Wikipedia, they are obligated to address the same issue everywhere on Wikipedia or else withdraw their current objection, is not how this works. Largoplazo (talk) 19:57, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

:::::::::We both know why you didn't modify the articles of France and the United Kingdom

:::::::::These articles are well guarded by an army of contributors from across the globe and editing them to conform to your wishes exposes you to immediate backlash while doing so for Mauritius is pretty much risk free

:::::::::So please, have some courage and modify the articles of France and the United Kingdom based on the same reasoning you applied for Mauritius Varoon2542 (talk) 20:28, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

::::::::::Having been away when you posted this last, I'm going to answer it here where you pasted it: I know why I didn't modify those articles at your command and I said why I didn't. If you think the reason is something other than what I know it to be, then we don't "both know" it. As I said before, you should lay off the psychoanalysis. You are terrible at it (which should have been clear to you after you learned that the person you accused of homophobia is a proud and outspoken gay man) and aren't exactly achieving your goals by attempting to exercise it.

::::::::::My reasons as I expressed them are unremarkable: I don't have infinite amounts of time, you don't dictate my priorities within the context of both my Wikipedia activities or my life, and there isn't any Wikipedia principle that one isn't allowed to fix a problem in one place unless they fix anything that resembles it everywhere else where someone points it out. If you're going to speak to what you fantasize another person to be thinking rather than to what they actually are thinking, if you're going to argue not with what another has said but with something that's entirely in your own head, then you're making it clear that you aren't here for a constructive discussion. You should ask yourself: Are you here as a serious editor or as a troll? If you're the former, then you ought to avoid giving the impression that you're the latter. Largoplazo (talk) 01:21, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

The question is, in my opinion, ridiculous but it seems that two editors, Cerium4B and Niasoh don't think so only and only when it comes to the statistics on the nationalities of foreign nationals in Mauritius

Niasoh has never contributed one word to the article prior to being called for help by Cerium4B who has himself never contributed to the article other than on this specific issue

As a reminder, 46% of all foreign nationals in Mauritius, are according to the 2022 National Census, Bangladeshi nationals

I don't know one country in the world where one nationality represents such a huge chunk of all immigrants so much so that a formerly non spoken language in Mauritius, Bengali, is now spoken by 1.18% of the population. All this taking place in a decade Page 131 of the Census report

I find these informations noteworthy

These two editors are the only ones who don't share that opinion and happen to be, by pure coincidence, of course, from Bangladesh

I was invited to bring this debate on the talk page, so here it is

If after a week, there are no compelling reasons given to censor this information from the article, I'll put it back Varoon2542 (talk) 22:51, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:I didn't see that census reference carefully. Yes, the census is a reliable source, but every country has expats and immigrants; it’s not necessary to mention particular one country percentages in the infobox as your citation mentions this information for more than 17 countries. But can be written inside the article. (the Indian national percentage is bigger than the Bangladeshi one, as you are saying 46% is Bangladeshi [page-143 of your citation]) Niasoh ❯❯❯ Wanna chat? 23:02, 3 February 2025 (UTC)

:@Varoon2542, It doesn’t matter where an editor is contributing. Wikipedia is a global platform, and anyone can contribute to anywhere. But you seem to think you wp:own this article. That’s not how Wikipedia works.

:On @Niasohs talk page, you accused us of bias, why? Is making an article wp:neutral a violation in your pov? And how exactly do you know Niasoh is from Bangladesh? What gives you the right to make assumptions about other editors and attack them?

:Also, why did you say:

:{{quote|“Are you ashamed that your countrymen migrate to my country?”[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Niasoh#c-Varoon2542-20250203220700-Niasoh-20250202182300]}}

:Wikipedia isn’t your personal platform for nationalist nonsense.

:I asked Niasoh to look into this issue—why is that bothering you? It’s not the first time I’ve asked him for reviews, and I’ve also reached out to other users like @Worldbruce, @Mehedi Abedin. If you have a problem with collaborating, maybe Wikipedia isn’t for you.

:Now, let’s talk about this article. Definitely you are clearly biased.

:'''Can you explain what kind of reference you added here??? [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mauritius&diff=prev&oldid=1273463994]

:Anyone can see that your only issue is with Bangladeshi nationals.

:Mauritius census report is undoubtedly a strong and reliable source for this article, but you’re deliberately misusing it. According to the data, Indian immigrants outnumber Bangladeshis, yet you ignored that. Why? Because it doesn’t match your narrative?

:Then, on your talk page, you said:

:{{quote|“There is no visible impact of the presence of Indian nationals in Mauritius, especially since they occupy more diverse professions, while the impact of Bangladeshis can be felt with the introduction of a formerly not spoken language, Bengali.”[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Varoon2542#c-Varoon2542-20250203230900-Niasoh-20250203225900]}}

:So, Wikipedia should reflect your personal opinions now? You like Indians, so you left them out, and you have a problem with Bangladeshis, so you exaggerate their presence? That’s not how Wikipedia works. This is an encyclopedia, not a place for your biases.

:You are literally trying to push your pov and engaging in edit war with other users on this article. Maybe a page block on you will keep this article safe. — Cerium4B—Talk? • 15:02, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

::{{tq|What gives you the right to make assumptions about other editors and attack them?}} Varoon is demonstrating an unrelenting inability or unwillingness to deal with disagreement without pretending to be a mind reader. I would have thought that after accusing me of homophobia only to learn that I'm a gay man who has always been outspoken in favor of LGBTQ+ rights, they would have had second thoughts about doing that again. But then, after I explained my rationale for certain action and inactions, objectively and at length, their reply was something to the effect of "You and I both know [attribution to me of some nefarious, false, ridiculous motivation]". At that point I brought up the homophobia accusation and told Varoon that they needed to stop this mind reading business because they're really, really bad at it. But apparently my comment failed to register because here we are today. (To be clear, I'm not saying it's a stretch to suppose, based on his editing history, that Niasoh is from Bangladesh. But that doesn't establish that his motivations here are what Varoon says they are.) Largoplazo (talk) 17:08, 4 February 2025 (UTC)

::@Cerium4B you should avoid giving personal assumption on editors POV without solid evidences. NXcrypto Message 07:17, 9 February 2025 (UTC)