Talk:Mecca#Requested move 26 April 2015

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mecca is a province. Mecca is not a city a capital and a province.

I think it is worth to mention that German scholars believe that the Holy city mentioned in the Quran was actually Petra and not Mecca. Mecca wasn't even there to begin with. There are no evidence of Mecca existing before the late 7th century. There are no maps, no trade reports, no travel report mentioning Mecca before that time.

The description of the city that we find in the Quran do not match the characteristics of Mecca's landscape. It actually suits Petra. Petra, indeed, was an ancient city, a place of worship, a trade center and there was a river and olive trees were growing on the mountains surrounding it. Nothing like that can be said about Mecca. 37.160.50.78 (talk) 19:37, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

:Who are the German scholars? The “Mecca didn’t exist” theory is dealt with, but the sources are predominantly the hagarists and, in addition to questions about their reliability, it would need to be incorporated in a way to reflect the fact that the theory is by no means the consensus amongst historians. It’s not even total consensus amongst hagarists. Yr Enw (talk) 04:16, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

:I'm not sure which German scholars you're referring to but what I know about this theory is the controversy raised by amateur Canadian archaeologist Dan Gibson which goes along this line that Mecca was actually Petra and based his revisionist theory around it. Which was debunked by historian David A. King. While I don't have much to add on that matter I have the following observations in mind regarding to the points you raised:

:1- I'm not sure which descriptions from the Quran regarding Mecca that you referring to? As far as I know, neither the Quran nor the Hadiths (at least in Sunni and Shia traditions that I know of) mention Mecca having a river or olive trees.

:2- Quote:"There are no maps, no trade reports, no travel report mentioning Mecca before that time." That's a bold assertion, but I'm not sure how this connects to Mecca's current location. The fact that Mecca might not have been noted as an important city before Islam doesn't really relate to its location as the religion or the religious community (Muslims) ascribe it to. From a broader historical perspective, when Islam began spreading, Arabian tribes expanded quickly across regions previously held by the Eastern Roman and Persian empires. We might or not find mentions of these tribes' main cities in Greek and Roman writings, but it's unclear why this would be a criterion to validate Mecca's existence. The historical documentation —or its absence— doesn't necessarily affect the city's religious and cultural importance as understood today in a post-Islamic context. — ♾️ Contemporary Nomad ^{(💬 Talk)} 10:29, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Mecca and Medina 81.106.208.166 (talk) 18:50, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

:What about them? --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 23:00, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Islamic jurisprudence is not a primary source. We don't even know if these two really existed. Please remove this 2A00:79E1:2E00:5B01:20F2:F92B:859D:4364 (talk) 14:41, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

:The article reads "In the Islamic view, the beginnings of Mecca are attributed ...". The tru statement is that Muslims believe this. Whether their belief is correct is not for us to say. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 17:09, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

89DF:F022:DCDC:F1B0:B5B9:97CC|talk]]) 14:42, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

{{edit semi-protected|Mecca|answered=no}}

Change “ Muhammad was born in Mecca in 570, and thus Islam has been inextricably linked with it ever since. He was born into the faction of Banu Hashim in the ruling tribe of Quraysh. It was in the nearby mountain cave of Hira on Jabal al-Nour that Muhammad began receiving divine revelations from God through the archangel Jibreel in 610, according to Islamic tradition.”

To

“According to Islamic tradition, Muhammad was born in Mecca in 570, and thus Islam has been inextricably linked with it ever since. According to Islamic tradition he was born into the faction of Banu Hashim in the ruling tribe of Quraysh. It was in the nearby mountain cave of Hira on Jabal al-Nour that Muhammad began receiving divine revelations from God through the archangel Jibreel in 610, according to Islamic tradition.”

Otherwise Wikipedia would be claiming something as a historical fact without any sources 2A02:C7C:E189:C200:B5E6:6340:412D:890E (talk) 22:09, 23 May 2025 (UTC)