Talk:Milbert Amplifiers

P3 is NOT a form of phantom power, and it is unlikely that the patent would survive a legal challenge, as in fact there is nothing new at all in it. (That goes for a vast number of patents, especially in the US, because the patent system is broken, but that debate is best handled somewhere else, just suffice it to say that many bogus patents have been granted, and usually survive unless someone puts up a lot of money to mount a legal challenge. IANAL, so I can't be quiate sure about this, or any other patent, but my engineering instinct says that this as an exceedingly trivial "invention", and in patent legalese "obvious to anyone skilled in the art". It is also very unlikely to be new and original.) I rather suspect that the information has been added by someone with a vested interest, considering that there is a direct hyperlink to the Milbert web site.

I suggest that, in the interests of fairness, we have some sensible discussion here, before doing anything too drastic about it. I would like to get rid of the hyperlink, and de-emphasise the alleged patent, without seeking to remove reference to the product itself. But let us stick to the technical aspects and the way in which we expect Wikipedia to work. I really want to see what other seasoned Wikipedians think before doing anything here. There is nothing "wrong" with the technology, just the way in which it is depicted here at present, and Milbert are only doing what other businesses do, so we should not do anything which discredits them. But, as it stands, I feel that it is not quite within the spirit of Wikipedia to leave it as is.

Tiger99 (talk) 11:09, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your opinion, engineering and legal judgments, and broad summary of the patent system. P3 Technology, however "obvious" you assert it was, did not exist in patent nor in commerce, before USPTO granted patent and then trademark. In the spirit of wikipedia, please provide documentation showing otherwise. TubeGod (talk) 12:23, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

4 Aug 2015 :: Tiger99 account has vanished from this site. What a shock. TubeGod (talk) 08:58, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

In the past month (Aug 2015), the entry for the David Berning Company, one of the oldest American audio manufacturers, has been completely eradicated from wikipedia, a victim of "speedy deletion", without warning or discussion. The Milbert Amplifiers entry survived an earlier attempted deletion in 2006, and the latest attempted deletion (Aug 2015) corresponds with an attempt to also remove the entry for Conrad-Johnson, another decades-old American audio manufacturing company. One was unlucky. Two was coincidence. Three is pattern. Has anyone else been targeted? -- Michael Milbert -- mike@milbert.com -- TubeGod (talk) 08:01, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Below is [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Milbert_Amplifiers&action=edit&oldid=676624559 Milbert Amplifiers wikipedia article archive from here], per "Any references lost in the trimdown which are reliable sources should be copied to the article's talk page for possible future use." by davidwr on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Milbert_Amplifiers_(2nd_nomination) AfD #2 2015-08] -- posted here on & by TubeGod (talk) 07:47, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Milbert Amplifiers is a company which, in collaboration with The David Berning Company,[http://davidberning.com The David Berning Company website] manufactures vacuum-tube audio equipment using various patented technologies and high voltage SMPS power supplies. Its mobile vacuum-tube audio amplifiers were introduced in 1986. Milbert Amplifiers also produces vacuum-tube audio equipment for guitarists and musicians using unique impedance conversion that operates vacuum tubes differently than traditional methods.

:That's a patently ridiculous claim! [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Milbert_Amplifiers&type=revision&diff=676627187&oldid=676624559 You removed most of the article in an attempt to salvage it] after it was pointed out that the content was completely inappropriate. Company owners shouldn't be profiling their own businesses on Wikipedia at such a great length. Time to step back and let some neutral, non-involved editors to work on it instead? Sionk (talk) 18:09, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

:That's not a "claim", it's a fact. TubeGod (talk) 19:46, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

:We welcome the editing. But all that's ever been proposed is deletion. We wouldn't care much, except that google ranks this wikipedia thing very highly. TubeGod (talk) 19:48, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Introduced in 1986, Milbert's initial product offering, the BaM-230, a version of which is still currently produced (BaM-235ab), is based on David Berning's EA-230 high-end home audio amplifier,[http://davidberning.com/reviews/ea230-stereophile Stereophile Magazine, Vol. 5, No. 1, p. 11] but designed and built for 12-volt automotive and mobile use.[http://milbert.com/Files/reviews/TheAbsoluteSound-BaM230.pdf The Absolute Sound High-End Journal, Vol. 13, Iss. 53, May / June, 1988] The basic BaM design is in continuous production for longer than any other car audio product. Jeff Dorgay, writing in The Robb Report magazine, identified the Milbert Amplifiers BaM-235 mobile tube amplifier as "the Holy Grail of auto sound".[http://milbert.com/Files/reviews/RobbReport/Milbert_BaM_Robb_Report_Collection_2005-06_Tubed_Tunes_On-the-go_image_web.jpg Dorgay, Jeff, The Robb Report Collection, June, 2005][http://www.tonepublications.com/images/pdfs/TA_003.pdf Dorgay, Jeff, "Can You Achieve High End Sound In A Car?", Tone Audio Magazine, Vol. 3, April, 2006, pp. 21-23]

In 1992, Milbert Amplifiers began producing the first in a series of electronic audio-frequency crossover devices. These devices, built to top quality and performance standards, are made to work with any audio equipment and to complement the BaM tube amplifiers in higher-power audio systems.

In 2013 Milbert began shipping the [http://milbert.com/liquid Liquid mobile tube amplifier], an amplifier closely based on the design of its original BaM-230.

In July, 2009, Milbert introduced at the Nashville [http://namm.org NAMM Show] its [http://milbert.com/gaga GAGA (Guitar Artists' Guitar Amplifier)], a nearly weightless, fifty-watt guitar and instrument vacuum-tube amplifier. Using patented technologies, GAGA eliminates the traditional audio output transformer and all traditional power supply magnetics. GAGA almost perfectly (and bi-directionally) mates power tubes, in any combinations, and speaker loads, resulting in transfer characteristics being—for the first time in musical instrument amplification—accurately and fully conveyed [http://davidberning.com/technology/zh White Paper, Benefits of ZOTL Technology] between tubes and speaker(s).

GAGA amplifiers are the first musical amplifiers to include patented [http://dcvoltage.net/p3 P3 Technology] (phantom power for guitar effect pedals) as a standard feature.

The GAGA 90 production model became available in November, 2011. GAGA D-60, a domestic version offering 120V/240V mains and lower audio power, was announced in April 2012, followed by GAGA D-30 in October, 2012.[http://milbert.com/info Milbert Amplifiers Product News Press Releases] A 15-watt version is also available.

Writing in Vintage Guitar Magazine (January, 2014), Rich Maloof reviewed the 60-watt GAGA D-60:[http://milbert.com/Files/GAGA/Milbert_GAGA_D60_Review_201401_VintageGuitarMag.jpg Maloof, Rich, "Shape Shifter: The Milbert Amplifiers GAGA D-60", Vintage Guitar Magazine, January, 2014]

"Lightweight and featuring an innovative, transformerless design, GAGA ... may even be unparalleled in matching versatility with satisfying tube tone. ... Well beyond [its] capacity for emulation is an opportunity to discover entirely new timbres and perhaps nail a sound that otherwise exists only in a player's mind."

Details, video interviews and press coverage links are available [http://milbert.com/gaga here].

The DCJuiceBox is a pedal power converter introduced by Milbert in September, 2013. It converts any 9-volt DC source into various DC voltages, including 18-volts, 12-volts, and an adjustable 6- to 12-volt output. DCJuiceBox allows guitar effects pedals requiring various different voltages to be operated from a single 9-volt source. DCJuiceBox works with any standard pedals and power supplies, and it is also P3-Ready: DCJuiceBox fully supports the patented P3 Phantom Powered Pedals and Pickups Technology.[http://dcvoltage.net P3 Phantom Powered Pedals and Pickups Technology]

In the mid 1990s, Earl Zausmer built two competition car audio systems, one in a white 1992 BMW 540, and another in a red 1994 BMW 540i.[http://milbert.com/autos/earl#Auto_Sound_Security_Magazine_February_1999 Auto Sound and Security Magazine, February, 1999] These systems went on to win several national-level car audio titles. Via Knight-Ridder, more than 200 newspapers reportedly carried articles mentioning the cars,[http://milbert.com/autos/earl#Newspapers Haas, Al, "Building the perfect car stereo system for an audiophile", Knight-Ridder Newspapers, Sunday, November 26, 1995] and the red BMW was highlighted in several major magazines, car audio[http://milbert.com/autos/earl#Car_Audio_Electronics_Magazine_February_1995 Car Audio and Electronics Magazine, February, 1995] and otherwise,[http://milbert.com/autos/earl#Newsweek_Magazine_November_1997 Newsweek Magazine, November, 1997] including BMW's RONDEL[http://milbert.com/autos/earl#BMW_Rondel_Magazine_February_1996 BMW Rondel Magazine, February, 1996] and Time Digital Magazine.[http://milbert.com/autos/earl#Time_Digital_Magazine Time Digital Magazine, November 3, 1997, pp. 30-33] Technical information, photographs and newspaper- and magazine-article reprints are available [http://milbert.com/autos/earl here].

• [http://milbert.com/tstxt.htm Tubes vs Transistors: Is There An Audible Difference (PDF scanned original)]
• [http://milbert.com/tubes_vs_transformers Tubes vs Transformers: An Esoteric Exploration of Tubes, Transformers, Tone and Transcendence]
• AutoStylin Magazine TechCorner article ( [http://milbert.com/articles/autostylin/ HTML] | [http://milbert.com/Files/Autostylin/issues/AutoStylin-200409-72dpi.pdf PDF] ) including information on speaker power and efficiency.
• [http://milbert.com/articles/truth_in_car_tube_amp_designs A schematic comparison] of "tube" car amp designs.

• [http://milbert.com/Files/reviews/TheAbsoluteSound-BaM230.pdf The Absolute Sound magazine]
• [http://milbert.commilbert.com/Files/reviews/AutoStylin-0406.pdf AutoStylin Magazine]
• [http://milbert.com/Files/reviews/CarAudioElectronic-BaM230.pdf Car Audio and Electronics Magazine]
• [http://milbert.com/Files/reviews/CarStereoReview-BaM230.pdf Car Stereo Review Magazine]
• [http://milbert.com/Files/reviews/IAR.pdf International Audio Review]
• [http://milbert.com/Files/reviews/RobbReport/Milbert_BaM_Robb_Report_Collection_2005-06_Tubed_Tunes_On-the-go_image_web.jpg The Robb Report]
• [http://milbert.com/Files/reviews/SoundsLike-BaM230.pdf Soundslike Magazine]
• [http://www.tonepublications.com/images/pdfs/TA_003.pdf Tone Audio]