Talk:Munich massacre#reqmovetag

Someone needs to rewrite this article like they weren’t narrating a movie. Kinglouie0805 (talk) 04:14, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

:Feel free to roll up your sleeves and get editing. After all, it's a collaborative platform, not just a place to critique from the sidelines. Nightsturm (talk) 13:22, 10 February 2025 (UTC)

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French Philosopher and famed existentialist John Paul Sartre wrote about the attack in an article titled "About Munich" in October of 1972 for French Newspaper La Cause du peuple. Sartre stated he generally believed that violence is Palestinians' only tool (due to their oppression and poverty) to Israel’s purposeful prevention of a solution for their conflict. Sartre thought it is was hypocritical for French socialists and the press to support freedom for Algeria but to pass judgment on the Palestinian's attempts at liberation, like the attack in Munich, especially without acknowledging Palestinian death at the hands of Israel. Sartre supposed the members of Black September wanted to attack at the Olympics to make it unignorable by the UN. With that, the Israeli government's response, or lack of response would also receive the world's spotlight. Sartre concluded that the world does not care about either Israelis or Palestinians, but disrupting the Olympics made the event uncomfortable by its proximity to the western world, instead of in the Middle East. To him, this event ultimately shows the world Palestinian despair, yet conviction. 9grh940fenj (talk) 19:37, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

:Sources: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/sartre/

:Links to an external site.

:https://www.jstor.org/stable/23511144 9grh940fenj (talk) 19:39, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

:File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Are you requesting this text be added in its entirety? also, where in the article should it go? Cannolis (talk) 20:06, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

::Insert the written section after international reactions. I was hoping to add more information to the reactions section because it is only world leaders. I hope to have it added in its entirety. I attached my sources in the reply above but I am unsure of formatting while submitting an edit request. 9grh940fenj (talk) 20:37, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

French Philosopher and famed existentialist John Paul Sartre wrote about the attack in an article titled "[https://www.jstor.org/stable/23511144 About Munich"] in October of 1972 for French Newspaper La Cause du peuple.{{cite journal |last1=Bowman |first1=Elizabeth |last2=Sartre |first2=John Paul |title=Satre on Munich 1972 |journal=Sartre Studies International |date=2003 |volume=9 |issue=2 |page=5 |pages=8 |url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/23511144}} Sartre stated he generally believed that violence is Palestinians' only tool (due to their oppression and poverty) to Israel’s purposeful prevention of a solution for their conflict. Sartre thought it is was hypocritical for French socialists and the press to support freedom for Algeria but to pass judgment on the Palestinian's attempts at liberation, like the attack in Munich, especially without acknowledging Palestinian death at the hands of Israel. Sartre supposed the members of Black September wanted to attack at the Olympics to make it unignorable by the UN. With that, the Israeli government's response, or lack of response would also receive the world's spotlight. Sartre concluded that the world does not care about either Israelis or Palestinians, but disrupting the Olympics made the event uncomfortable by its proximity to the western world, instead of in the Middle East. To him, this event ultimately shows the world Palestinian despair, yet conviction 9grh940fenj (talk) 15:04, 25 February 2025 (UTC)

{{reftalk}}

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Please change organisation to organization 2601:300:4980:8130:D2F1:6F6:AB8C:B149 (talk) 05:33, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

:{{not done}}. This article uses British English so that spelling is appropriate. See MOS:ENGVAR. –CWenger (^ • @) 15:25, 27 February 2025 (UTC)

can this be updated to refer to the ‘hostage-takers’ as terrorists? 97.113.59.47 (talk) 04:14, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

:There does not appear to be a good reason to do that. Firstly, there is WP:TERRORIST, and secondly, the string 'hostage-taker' occurs 35 times compared to the string 'terrorist', which appears 60 times. Sean.hoyland (talk) 04:22, 28 February 2025 (UTC)

::Why not use one or the other? Hostage taker doesn’t convoy the depth of the actions. They didn’t just take hostages. They terrorized both the victims, the other athletes and the world. It’s like calling the 9/11 perpetrators “bad pilots”. 97.113.59.47 (talk) 18:52, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

:::Hostage taker is a neutral or descriptive term focusing solely on the act of taking hostages. It does not inherently convey a political, ideological, or moral stance but instead emphasizes the method used in the attack.

:::Even militant suggests an armed individual engaged in conflict, often with a political or ideological motivation. While it acknowledges that the perpetrators were part of an organized group, it does not inherently imply illegitimacy or wrongdoing. Some may view it as a more neutral or less emotionally charged term.

:::Terrorist explicitly conveys the idea that the perpetrators used violence to instill fear and achieve political ends. This term labels the attackers as individuals who deliberately targeted civilians for political purposes. 97.113.59.47 (talk) 18:56, 1 March 2025 (UTC)

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Article states that "During the memorial service, Eliash collapsed and died of a heart attack." This is incorrect. Carmel Eliash had a heart attack during the service but he did not die. He did, however, die the following year during a different event in Israel. 2003:DD:2F10:1D87:208C:2D32:FD55:F3A7 (talk) 22:28, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

:{{fixed}}. 22:54, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

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The claim very early in the article is that "West German neo-Nazis provided logistical assistance to the group."

That is a deliberate attempt to mislead readers.

There were no neo-Nazis involved in the planning and execution of the attack. The linked Spiegel article tries hard to convince its readers that neo-Nazis were somehow involved and says "...is it now necessary to consider the story ... in a new light? Yes at least in part." But whenever it becomes more concrete, they write things like "...it is still unclear today whether..." or "The question remains unanswered to this day.".

All they do is create a smoke-screen with the aim of taking the leftists (Red Army Faction, RAF) out of the equation, who strongly sympathized with the attackers and publicly welcomed the attack.

But in any case, the truth is that: "Black September didn't need any German logistic assistance." Which they do in fact write. But only to make sure no-one will ask for potential connections to the Red Army Faction.

A key conclusion of the article is very revealing...: "Until now, many experts assumed that it was left-wing extremists who had had ties to Black September, helping the terrorists find places to stay in Munich, for example. ... But according to the released documents, such statements must now be treated as myths."

- Evidently, all the journalists at Spiegel cared about is to take potential blame away from their RAF friends. 138.246.3.57 (talk) 22:01, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

:{{fixed}}. Refined the text contributed by a former editor by making a qualification edit to ensure accuracy after reviewing the provided source. Nightsturm (talk) 15:18, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

In the “attack and hostage taking” section of the article it says “According to the author Simon Reeve, Afif (the son of a Jewish mother and Christian father)” however on the page for Afif it says “Biographies of Afif claimed that his mother was Jewish, while his father was a wealthy Christian Arab businessman. However, both his family and Israel's interior ministry records dispute the claim about his mother. According to the records, his mother, Arifa, was born in 1920 to Hassan and Amina.” Is it possible to update this page (or Afif’s page) so that the two pages are consistent? Tiakat333 (talk) 21:27, 21 March 2025 (UTC)

The statement "West German authorities had received a tip-off from a Palestinian informant in Beirut three weeks before the massacre" is not supported by the citation [https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/13537121.2022.2088134 "The Munich massacre and the proliferation of counterterrorism special operation forces"]. The relevant part of the cited article, on page 629, reads:

:In 2012 it was revealed that concrete intelligence from multiple sources regarding a potential attack by Palestinian functions at the Olympic games was known to the security forces, but no contingency plan was established. The West German newspaper Der Spiegel even revealed that a psychologist working for the Munich police wrote about 26 possible scenarios at the Olympic games, one of which was an invasion of Palestinian elements to the Olympic village.

No mention of a Palestinian source, no mention of Beirut, no mention of three weeks. - Tim1965 (talk) 02:44, 12 April 2025 (UTC)

:The statement is in the second source within the paragraph. I have removed the misplaced source and properly repositioned the correct one. Nightsturm (talk) 16:50, 16 April 2025 (UTC)