Talk:No Me Ames

Upon request, went through this. Comments:

• The background section should be removed. it belongs in Lopez' main article. I did not delete it. There is a background section, now labeled "song background"

• The chart performance ignores everywhere but the US. What about performance in Latin America and elsewhere?

1) I agree, but that was Status's idea so I'll let him comment on that. 2) There are very few Latin American single charts that can be considered reliable and none are known to exist before the 2000s decade. Erick (talk) 19:35, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

MOS:ALBUM states: "It should not be assumed that the reader is familiar with the artist's history and/or previously released albums. If it's necessary to put these items into context for the reader to further his understanding of later content in the article, a background section is suggested. This section should discuss previous occasions in the artist's history and important events that had an impact on the album." This, too, relates to songs. The song only charted and was released in the US, as far was we know. Statυs (talk) 02:15, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

{{Talk:No Me Ames/GA1}}

For reference only:

• [http://www.webcitation.org/69hly4R5D ]
• [http://www.webcitation.org/69hm0Di1g ]
• [http://www.webcitation.org/69hm1wc9F ]

Statυs (talk) 02:53, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Shouldn't that all information be in Jennifer López's article instead? I find it weird to have to read about her whole life before getting to record a demo and coincidentally find Marc Anthony, et cetera et cetera. Diego Grez (talk) 17:05, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

: As this song is her debut single (to the Spanish market) it is entirely relevant to discuss how she got into the music industry. Her transition from film to music was a great one. Statυs (talk) 17:58, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

{{ping|George Ho}} Billboard clearly states that is a single ([https://books.google.com/books?id=CQ0EAAAAMBAJ&lpg=RA1-PA54&dq=intitle%3Abillboard%20no%20me%20ames%20single&pg=RA1-PA54#v=onepage&q=intitle:billboard%20no%20me%20ames%20single&f=false source]). Erick (talk) 09:39, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

: But that person didn't say it was a commercially released single. [https://books.google.com/books?id=kw0EAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA107&dq=%22no%20me%20ames%22%20promotional&pg=PA107#v=onepage&q=%22no%20me%20ames%22%20promotional&f=false Another Billboard issue] would say that the studio promoted the song. George Ho (talk) 09:45, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

::{{ping|George Ho}} I mean, the Hot Latin Songs was an airplay-only chart back then. If "No Me Ames" can't be considered a single, then how can we even be sure all the songs that ranked on the Hot Latin Songs before Billboard changed its methodology can be considered singles as well? Especially those that predate the digital download era? Erick (talk) 09:53, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

::: Not all other singles and songs; just this song. By evaluating primary sources (i.e. releases by the record label), if a commercial single is not found to be released, then the "infobox song" should be used instead. We can consider the type either "song" at default (without using the "type" parameter) if "promotional material" is ruled out. Also, though discogs is technically unreliable, the photos say [https://www.discogs.com/Jennifer-Lopez-Duet-With-Marc-Anthony-No-Me-Ames/release/8450749 "Promotional Use Only"]. Or we can use [http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/latin/7565894/shakira-debuts-number-1-hot-latin-songs-chantaje-maluma an article about Shakira], which mentions when the chart changed. George Ho (talk) 10:02, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

::: I [http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/474704/taylor-swift-rihanna-psy-buoyed-by-billboard-chart-changes found this article], another one of those. But we must avoid original research, including synthesis. George Ho (talk) 10:05, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

::: To prove the existence of the commercial single, I tried finding overall sales of the single but found none (probably). Instead, I found [https://books.google.com/books?id=EA8EAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA62&dq=%22no%20me%20ames%22%20sold%20-wikipedia&pg=PA62#v=onepage&q=%22no%20me%20ames%22%20sold%20-wikipedia&f=false proof of promotion] and [https://books.google.com/books?id=mggEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA74&dq=%22no%20me%20ames%22%20sold%20-wikipedia&pg=PA74#v=onepage&q=%22no%20me%20ames%22%20sold%20-wikipedia&f=false radio audience impressions]. George Ho (talk) 10:12, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

:::: To be more specific, I was talking about the songs that ranked on the Hot Latin Songs during the '80s and and early '90s. Many of them tend to be promo only singles, which is why I brought that up. Erick (talk) 15:10, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

::::: "Early 1990s" would not include 1999. And you mean songs in general? What about this song? Why not just discuss the song? George Ho (talk) 19:06, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

:::::: Because this song is an example of the many songs that ranked on the Hot Latin Songs that were only commercially released to released to radio stations only. How can I be sure any of these songs from '80s are also not singles if the majority were promo singles as well? Just to be clear, I'm not arguing this song is or isn't a single. Erick (talk) 19:11, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

::::::: Found one [https://books.google.com/books?id=CxAEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA27&dq=%22hot%20latin%20tracks%22%20billboard%201986%20radio%20airplay&pg=PA27#v=onepage&q=%22hot%20latin%20tracks%22%20billboard%201986%20radio%20airplay&f=false from 1996]. Also, found some [https://books.google.com/books?id=fwgEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA75&dq=%22hot%20latin%20tracks%22%20billboard%201986%20radio%20airplay&pg=PA72#v=onepage&q=%22hot%20latin%20tracks%22%20billboard%201986%20radio%20airplay&f=false glimpse of history]. Don't know which one helps more, but the latter is more detailed. George Ho (talk) 19:23, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

{{outdent}}

: That's not what I was asking. If No Me Ames can't be considered to be a single because it was released only to radio stations, then how can we be sure the other songs I mentioned are? To rephrase what I'm saying, many of the songs that were ranked on the Hot Latin Songs prior to 2012 (especially the '80s and '90s) were also only released as promo singles and weren't commercially released. That's what I'm getting at. Erick (talk) 19:50, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

:: If the other songs were not released as individual commercial singles, i.e. if no individual commercial product is found, even when charted, the song cannot be considered a single. Sometimes, "infobox single" has been misused, yet almost no one did anything about it... yet. "Infobox song" should have been used at default in case of uncertainty, but either case-by-case approach or central discussion must be used utilized. George Ho (talk) 20:08, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

::: I'm all for a central discussion if it'll clear up any confusions that can occur over time. Erick (talk) 20:12, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

By the way, if I can't change the infobox, shall I add the caption indicating what the image indicates? George Ho (talk) 19:25, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

I recently [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=No_Me_Ames&diff=816367207&oldid=816365597 changed] from "infobox single" to "infobox song" but used single as a Type entry. I thought about changing the status at first, but the following non-Billboard sources calling it a "single" prompted me to forego the consideration: [http://news.radio.com/2016/08/29/jennifer-lopez-surprises-crowd-at-marc-anthony-show/ Radio.com], [http://popcrush.com/j-lo-marc-anthony-no-me-ames-performance-video/ PopCrush], [https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jennifer-lopez-marc-anthony-and-i-still-care-about-each-other_us_57c9ad37e4b0e60d31deecbf HuffPost], [https://books.google.com/books?id=YygEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA102&dq=lopez%20single%20%22no%20me%20ames%22%20-wikipedia%20-discogs%20-imdb%20-billboard&pg=PA102#v=onepage&q=lopez%20single%20%22no%20me%20ames%22%20-wikipedia%20-discogs%20-imdb%20-billboard&f=false Vibe], [https://books.google.com/books?id=kXCjAQAAQBAJ&lpg=PA359&dq=single%20%22no%20me%20ames%22%20-wikipedia%20-discogs%20-imdb%20-billboard&pg=PA359#v=onepage&q=single%20%22no%20me%20ames%22%20-wikipedia%20-discogs%20-imdb%20-billboard&f=false one book] and [https://books.google.com/books?id=bWqeDAAAQBAJ&lpg=PT81&dq=single%20%22no%20me%20ames%22%20-wikipedia%20-discogs%20-imdb%20-billboard&pg=PT81#v=onepage&q=single%20%22no%20me%20ames%22%20-wikipedia%20-discogs%20-imdb%20-billboard&f=false another book], and [https://books.google.com/books?id=Yx1NtPSbzhoC&lpg=PT140&dq=lopez%20single%20%22no%20me%20ames%22%20-wikipedia%20-discogs%20-imdb%20-billboard&pg=PT140#v=onepage&q=lopez%20single%20%22no%20me%20ames%22%20-wikipedia%20-discogs%20-imdb%20-billboard&f=false another book]. Nevertheless, other sources call it a "track" or a "song" or something like that. Also, I added an image caption to reflect what the image was intended for. Therefore, I'll let the article call the work a "single" for now. I even tried requesting more parameters for physical-less releases at Template talk:Infobox song, but the idea was shot down. (BTW, I copied links from the other discussion.) George Ho (talk) 00:47, 22 December 2017 (UTC)