Talk:Patricia Highsmith#Link farm

I am unclear as to whether Highsmith stalked the Bloomindale's woman or vice versa. Can someone please clear this up?

Done. It was Highsmith who did it, but it wasn't exactly stalking - Highsmith did not harass the woman, who never even knew of her existence. PhilipC

Hello all

I have expanded the lead to adequately summarise the new content in the article.

Happy to discuss Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 05:02, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

I removed these links:

1. https://web.archive.org/web/20180114225653/http://ead.nb.admin.ch/html/highsmith.html Patricia Highsmith Papers – Swiss Literary Archives. Swiss National Library, 2006.
2. https://web.archive.org/web/20170428145432/https://www.nb.admin.ch/aktuelles/medieninformation/01134/index.html Patricia Highsmith : photographs from the exhibition]. Swiss Literary Archives, Swiss National Library, December 1, 2006. (archive)
3. https://worldcat.org/identities/np-highsmith,%20patricia$1921%201995/ Works by or about Patricia Highsmith] {{Webarchive|url=https://web.archive.org/web/20201018013659/https://worldcat.org/identities/np-highsmith,%20patricia$1921%201995/|date=October 18, 2020}} in libraries (WorldCat catalog)
4. https://web.archive.org/web/20040622002320/http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/audiointerviews/profilepages/highsmithp1.shtml Thrillers and Crime Fiction], Patricia Highsmith interview on Audio Interviews, BBC Four, December 3, 1972 (archive)
5. {{usurped|[https://web.archive.org/web/20090717091118/http://wiredforbooks.org/mp3/PatriciaHighsmith1987.mp3 Patricia Highsmith]}}, interview with Don Swaim, Book Beat, WCBS-Radio (via Wired for Books, Ohio University), October 29, 1987. (archive) {{plays audio}}

I removed them because they are dead links, and because there are 15 links in the section, which is inconsistent with WP:ELPOINTS #3, "Links in the "External links" section should be kept to a minimum."

Pyxis Solitary restored them, saying "WP:ELDEAD "if a suitable replacement is not available and the archived copy has substantially the same content...and function as the original.....if the official website...is no longer functional, then a good archived copy could be preferable to no link"".

I think the first question is: Which of these is allegedly the WP:ELOFFICIAL website? AFAICT the answer is "none of them", which means that objection can be ignored. Pyxis, do you disagree with me? Are you claiming that the Swiss National Library, WorldCat, the BBC Four, or the WCBS-AM radio station are her own website? WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:45, 17 June 2025 (UTC)

:External links are not solely for the article subject's "own" website. This is a notable author who died in 1995. Per WP:ELYES – "Sites that contain neutral and accurate material that is relevant to an encyclopedic understanding of the subject and cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues,[d] amount of detail (such as professional athlete statistics, movie or television credits, interview transcripts, or online textbooks), or other reasons." P.S. Highsmith's documents, manuscripts, etc., are kept at the Swiss Literary Archives (Swiss National Library). Pyxis Solitary (yak). ⚢ 07:41, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

::@Pyxis Solitary, I agree that external links are not solely – or even primarily – for the article subject's "own" website. But the WP:ELOFFICIAL rules definitely are only for the article subject's "own" website. You quoted a rule that says "if the official website...is no longer functional, then a good archived copy could be preferable to no link". Do you think that a rule about "the official website" is applicable to non-official websites? WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:51, 18 June 2025 (UTC)

:::I referred to and quoted WP:ELDEAD [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Patricia_Highsmith&diff=next&oldid=1295492186 (12:30, 17 June 2025)]— not WP:ELOFFICIAL. And what WP:ELDEAD states is: "{{green|For example, if the official website....}}". "For example" means for instance. Pyxis Solitary (yak). ⚢ 09:04, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

::::Yes, but that particular "For example" applies only to the instance in which the dead link is an official website. This part of the guideline is irrelevant to non-official websites.

::::@Pyxis Solitary, let's talk about the "the archived copy has substantially the same content...and function as the original" part of your rationale. Click the archive link for the last dead EL. Come back here and tell me whether you think "substantially the same content...and function as the original" is a likely description of that archive page. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:56, 19 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::"{{tq|that particular "For example" applies only to the instance in which the dead link is an official website.}}" Um, no. Are you being deliberately obtuse?
Before arriving at the "For example", WP:ELDEAD states: "{{green|dead links should either be updated or removed. Updates may sometimes include adding an archive URL, but only if a suitable replacement is not available and the archived copy has substantially the same content, user experience, and function as the original.}}" This is precisely why archive copies became the means for accessing the Highsmith-related ELs.
I suggest that you seek consensus from more editors regarding the Highsmith interviews and literary and historical documents (i.e. Swiss Literary Archives). Pyxis Solitary (yak). ⚢ 10:34, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::* The "For example" line was [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:External_links&diff=prev&oldid=1199697202 added in January 2024]. Look at the diff, and then tell me which one of us is likely to know what was intended.

::::::* Did you look at the last item in the list? Do you believe that this archive is a desirable external link? It's this one:

::::::** {{usurped|[https://web.archive.org/web/20090717091118/http://wiredforbooks.org/mp3/PatriciaHighsmith1987.mp3 Patricia Highsmith]}}, interview with Don Swaim, Book Beat, WCBS-Radio (via Wired for Books, Ohio University), October 29, 1987. (archive) {{plays audio}}

::::::WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:20, 20 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::::(1) Regardless of who wrote it, the wording is "for example". An example is an illustration.
(2) The url for the Don Swaim interview should be changed to https://media.library.ohio.edu/digital/collection/donswaim/id/5114/. Pyxis Solitary (yak). ⚢ 10:26, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::::# Yes: For example, let me give you an illustration that applies only to WP:ELOFFICIAL links, but not to other links.

::::::::# Since we agree that what you restored is a completely useless and broken archive link, will you now replace that with a functional non-archive link? And perhaps you'd search for replacements for all of these archived links? Consider what ELDEAD says about all links: {{xt|Updates may sometimes include adding an archive URL, but only if a suitable replacement is not available}} (emphasis added). Archive URLs are never wanted if a suitable replacement is available.

::::::::WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:45, 21 June 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::As I said above, reach consensus with more editors. Bold edits have limits. Create an RfC on this Talk page if you need to. Pyxis Solitary (yak). ⚢ 08:31, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::So:

::::::::::* You agree that the existing link is completely worthless, but

::::::::::* You think that other editors should have to share an opinion about whether to have a completely worthless link in ==External links==?

::::::::::I think I'll invoke WP:ELBURDEN instead: "Disputed links should be excluded by default unless and until there is a consensus to include them." You can restore these when you demonstrate that there is an actual consensus to include them. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:26, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

Can anyone actually hear the audio files at https://web.archive.org/web/20040622002320/http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/audiointerviews/profilepages/highsmithp1.shtml? The first is 74 bytes, which is suspiciously small. This is the first item listed in Patricia Highsmith#Audio interviews.

The archived page itself is worthless (unless you think being interviewed on BBC Four is noteworthy per se), as it says only this:

{{tqb|Patricia Highsmith 1921 - 1995       

Thrillers and Crime Fiction

3 December 1972  BBC TV

Patricia Highsmith talks about

Audio why she decided to write crime stories  0 min 50

Audio how she views crooks, violence and Ripley  1 min 1

Audio her interest in murder and morality  0 min 56

You will need RealPlayer to access these clips. Visit WebWise for help downloading RealPlayer}}

    WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:39, 22 June 2025 (UTC)