Talk:Pearl City High School (Hawaii)

Hi @Theadventurer64, I have listed the outstanding points from the GA review here, so we can continue to work on them one by one:

The function of the lead is to summarise the article. This means the lead should pretty much only include information that is also included elsewhere in the article. In this lead, there is some important information missing from the lead, and some information that is only in the lead. Both of these categories should be fixed. See WP:BETTER/GRAF1 for how to write good lead sections. IAWW (talk) 19:58, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

:Is there an example you can provide for this Theadventurer64 (talk) 18:28, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

::"Its mascot is the Charger and is operated by the Hawaii State Department of Education (HIDOE)." is not in the body IAWW (talk) 18:32, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Fixed. Added in the History section. @It is a wonderful world Theadventurer64 (talk) 21:21, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

Per WP:LEADCITE, citations should not be in the lead for an uncontroversial article like this. IAWW (talk) 19:58, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

:"Although the presence of citations in the lead is neither required in every article nor prohibited in any article, there is no exception to citation requirements specific to leads." what about this @It is a wonderful world Theadventurer64 (talk) 18:28, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

::Generally you don't want to cite anything in the lead except content that has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, or direct quotations. Although it's not directly prohibited, "editors should balance the desire to avoid redundant citations in the lead with the desire to aid readers in locating sources for challengeable material". There is no material in the lead that is likely to be challenged, so why should any citations be there? At least as far as I am aware, this is the though process behind why every good or featured article I have ever seen does not cite unless the content fits into one of the above categories. IAWW (talk) 18:39, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Ah, alright. On another school article, there were been marks for citations needed regarding the statues located on campus ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=L%C4%81na%CA%BBi_High_and_Elementary_School&oldid=1270999458 here]). As for the second citations, the NCAC doesn't have an article, so I added the citations there in case it would be challenged. Would this change things? Theadventurer64 (talk) 20:58, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

::::The school article you linked is in pretty poor shape, and has the same lead issues this one does. I don't understand why the NCAC not having an article would make "The school utilizes career academy models based on Smaller Learning Communities which have been reviewed by the National Academy Career Coalition (NCAC)" more likely to be challenged? IAWW (talk) 22:50, 9 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::As far as I was aware, the NCAC wasn't a highly mentioned organization on Wikipedia. I added citations in order for it to not be marked as nonsense, just in case someone goes on here and questions how come info about a NCAC organization was added. If you look up National Academy Career Coalition, only a handful of articles come up, with only two out of the five relevant mentions not created/modified by me. Theadventurer64 (talk) 20:43, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::Oh I see. To be honest I sincerely doubt anyone will go through that thought process, and I don't think it will make the material "likely to be challenged". Citations will be in the body anyways. IAWW (talk) 20:48, 13 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Alright. Sounds good Theadventurer64 (talk) 18:11, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Fixed, @It is a wonderful world Theadventurer64 (talk) 18:14, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::Nice, note there is some other information in the lead that is not in the body, so that's something to work on. IAWW (talk) 13:18, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::Fixed. Also added additional information to Lead @It is a wonderful world Theadventurer64 (talk) 21:15, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::Nice @Theadventurer64, this is getting closer to being ready to be renominated. I noticed there is some unsourced material in the body that needs to be sourced. Also, the information in the infobox should be included in the prose of the article, just like the information in the lead should be (MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE). IAWW (talk) 07:03, 16 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::Fixed the former, can work on the latter at somepoint. Theadventurer64 (talk) 21:23, 19 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::Updated. Theadventurer64 (talk) 22:50, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::@It is a wonderful world one thing about the infobox rule is that, when looked at a featured article (Amador Valley High School), there was no mention of the principal anywhere in the article, other than inside of the infobox. How do you make of this? Theadventurer64 (talk) 22:56, 21 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::That featured article is not correct in that area. It's probably because it was promoted in 2009 when quality standards were lower. IAWW (talk) 09:36, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::What about [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Amador_Valley_High_School&direction=prev&oldid=997959585 the version] when it was repromoted after [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Amador_Valley_High_School a review in 2021]? Theadventurer64 (talk) 19:10, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::They missed the improvement I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

:::::::::::::::::If you have an issue with the guideline, you should raise it at the appropriate avenue, not with me! IAWW (talk) 19:20, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::::Do note it's not strictly part of the GA critieria – though it's closely related to verifiability. IAWW (talk) 19:21, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

{{Green|In May 1971, then-governor John A. Burns released 2.8 million in funding for the development of the school.}}: Needs citation. Also, is there any information on why the school was established? IAWW (talk) 19:58, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

:I used the sources you provided, I can add a citation to the clipping; As for why the school was established, I can do some research on that Theadventurer64 (talk) 21:32, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

::Looks to me that the school existed before 1971, with an article dating all the way back to the 1920s. My guess is that it was part of a school complex that consisted of primary and secondary schools, and it wasn't until the 1960s when the groundbreaking occurred when a separate campus was considered. Theadventurer64 (talk) 01:35, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

::Yes definitely cite the clipping. There must be some sourcing available for when it was established/broke away from a complex. Have you got access to newspapers.com yet? If not, I'll search for some sourcing. IAWW (talk) 12:03, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

:::It's not implied, just my theory. You are free to look this up and see if you can come up with anything Theadventurer64 (talk) 18:47, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Found this newsclipping talking about the school's 50th anniversary; It mentions a book that has info on the school's founding, and the development of the school; however it's was a limited edition. Perhaps we could get a copy of the book by contacting the school directly, or maybe it's available at the local library. Theadventurer64 (talk) 19:24, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

::::Great find. This would be absolutely amazing for the article if you could get a hold of it. Do you live nearby to access the local library? Articles like [https://www.mypearlcity.com/2021/09/25/story-education-charger-volunteers-distribute-hundreds-pearl-city-high-school-50th-anniversary-books/ this] are promising. Contacting the school directly is also a good idea. IAWW (talk) 19:38, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::Not atm, but I can find people who are. I'll see what I can do! Theadventurer64 (talk) 05:03, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::Good luck! IAWW (talk) 12:39, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::@It is a wonderful world without the addition of this book, is this section good to go? Theadventurer64 (talk) 19:11, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Not yet, it needs citations. Then I'll review that section according to the GA criteria if you would like. IAWW (talk) 19:23, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::Ah, my bad. I added citations to the sections where needed already, probably should've clarified that. Theadventurer64 (talk) 18:16, 14 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::Well done for adding them IAWW (talk) 13:19, 15 May 2025 (UTC)

{{Green|and students were provided with slop buckets for food disposal}}: Unnecessary detail – I'm sure there were lots of procedures that are different from now in 1971. IAWW (talk) 20:34, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

The second paragraph needs a citation. IAWW (talk) 20:34, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

:Fixed. Theadventurer64 (talk) 21:20, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

{{Green|along with "important paperwork" according to the school's principal}}: I think this is unnecessary detail, but I'm also not opposed to keeping this bit. IAWW (talk) 20:34, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

:Alright. Theadventurer64 (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

:Removed. Theadventurer64 (talk) 19:10, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

{{Green|During its inaugural year, the school operated with only Buildings A and B. Over time, the campus expanded to include Buildings C through F, as well as Buildings K, L, and M.}}: Repeated information. You can cut it either here or in the history section. IAWW (talk) 20:34, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

:Fixed this a while ago. Forgot to comment here. Theadventurer64 (talk) 18:17, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

The extracurricular activities section is almost entirely based off primary sources. It needs some secondary sources or it doesn't have sufficient notability. IAWW (talk) 20:34, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

:Is the idea that extracurricular activities are notable themselves good enough to keep the section? Theadventurer64 (talk) 21:54, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

::Yes in my opinion, but it would need to be cut to about a fifth of the size if secondary sources can't be found. But there are probably some available right? IAWW (talk) 10:12, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

:::I'll see what I can do. I found some newspaper clippings for DECA, though not sure if that's notable enough. Can see if I can find for the other clubs as well Theadventurer64 (talk) 18:50, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

::::News clippings are notable enough to include most of what they mention. I recommend adding the sources as you go along so you can clearly see what is still relying on primary sourcing. I'm sure there must be some clippings for the Athletics wins . IAWW (talk) 19:41, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::I removed the sections for clubs for now, so can focus on other sections which may have more info; If sources can be found, I'll add it back. As for sports, I can look on newspapers.com and see if I can find any other info regarding championships. Theadventurer64 (talk) 20:40, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::There isn't much information about the HHSAA championships other than on the website and in its scorekeeping book. I added a source regarding the boys soccer tournement a bit ago from a newspaper, but that's all I could find. Theadventurer64 (talk) 18:16, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Any suggestions to move forward? Should the info be removed? Theadventurer64 (talk) 20:34, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::@It is a wonderful world Theadventurer64 (talk) 18:18, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::Hi @Theadventurer64, thanks for pinging. I did indeed miss your original reply. Since there is no reliable secondary sourcing available, then the solution is to cut pretty much everything. I would retain "The school participates in the Oahu Interscholastic Association (OIA). Pearl City High School has won numerous HHSAA state championships across various sports." for broadness though, even though there is no secondary sourcing available. Please do keep pinging me when you want my attention, I'm liable to miss things otherwise. IAWW (talk) 18:27, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::Alright, sounds good. Thank you Theadventurer64 (talk) 18:50, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::Fixed. Theadventurer64 (talk) 18:57, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::@It is a wonderful world Theadventurer64 (talk) 19:11, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::::::Nice. Looks good. IAWW (talk) 19:20, 8 May 2025 (UTC)

{{Green|The Charger Marching Band participated in the 2011 London New Year's Day Parade, spending ten days in Paris and London}}: The YouTube video this is cited to is not a reliable source unfortunately.

Adding this comment underneath because for whatever reason, it looks like it doesn't have a reply option. Is there any consensus on why YT cannot be used as a source? Per WP:VIDEOREF, there isn't a blanket ban on using YT videos as sources. If this is wrong, please correct me.

Edit: Found "Editors should not use a video as a citation to present their own interpretation of its content. If the material in a video only available on YouTube includes content not previously produced or discussed in other reliable sources, then that material may be undue and inappropriate for Wikipedia."

Theadventurer64 (talk) 20:41, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

:Hi @Theadventurer64, my apologies for not being specific in my point. There is definitely not a blanket ban on YT sources, it depends on who uploaded/published the video on YT. If the video was published by a reputable news organisation, for example, it would be reliable. In this case, the uploader is a pseudo-nonymous account, and the video is self-published, so it is not reliable. Also, the reason it didn't let you reply is because I forgot to sign my comment! IAWW (talk) 20:55, 6 May 2025 (UTC)

::All good. I'll find another source for this. Theadventurer64 (talk) 18:16, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

:::Fixed. Theadventurer64 (talk) 20:34, 7 May 2025 (UTC)