Talk:Persona 3 Reload#Proposed merge of Femc Reloaded Project

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Article demonstrates notability adequately and is well-written.

Cukie Gherkin (talk) 21:05, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

• https://kotaku.com/persona-3-reload-trans-scene-beautiful-lady-beach-1851206294 Sergecross73 msg me 15:05, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

The Persona 3 Reload game mod Femc Reloaded Project does not seem to me to warrant a standalone article per WP:PAGEDECIDE. It has not received much WP:SUSTAINED coverage, and the coverage it has received mostly boils down to "well it sucks that Reload didn't have the female protagonist, but at least this mod exists, so that's cool". It would be better covered, in my opinion, as a sentence (or at best, a subsection) within the Reception section of this article. silviaASH (inquire within) 00:53, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Agreed. There's really not much there. It should be consolidated into a paragraph at Reload. Sergecross73 msg me 01:01, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose The article passes WP:GNG and WP:SUSTAINED (it was mentioned in [https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/persona-3-reload-producer-dashes-any-remaining-hopes-for-the-return-of-portables-female-protagonist-it-is-likely-never-going-to-happen/ this article] and [https://www.gamesradar.com/games/jrpg/2024s-best-single-player-game-metaphor-refantazio-threatens-to-be-2025s-best-multiplayer-game-as-one-modder-works-to-add-online-co-op-to-the-jrpg/ this article] long after its release was covered in the gaming press. There's also no obvious merge target - Kotone is from Persona 3 Portable, but the mod is for Persona 3 Reload, so WP:MERGEREASON is essentially moot. While there could be a section about the omission of Kotone, that might be undue weight for something that is literally not in the game and wasn't even in the original. It would feel like a trivial fan grievance, so it makes more sense to keep this its own article and be more about the mod's successes than the fan reaction itself. Due to all of these things, I strongly oppose a merge on OVERLAP grounds. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 03:46, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
• :Regarding the assertion that there is {{tq|no obvious merge target}}, the title of the page refers to the mod, not the character. If the title referred to both, there could be some dispute, but Kotone Shiomi already redirects to Protagonist (Persona 3). And since the mod is for Reload, and not Portable, Reload is the most obvious merge target, no? I'm just not sure I understand the logic there.
  In any case, I would argue that WP:MERGEREASON #3 and #5 apply, since the Femc Reloaded article is very short and unlikely to see much expansion, and the context for its existence is better supplied within the article on Reload. I don't think it would be WP:UNDUE to do it that way, either; it could be done very briefly and without much fuss. If anything, having the standalone article essentially saying "The female protagonist isn't in Persona 3 Reload and fans didn't like that so they made a mod" is more UNDUE. silviaASH (inquire within) 04:17, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
• :Also worth noting that neither of those links are WP:SIGCOV. They both only mention the mod in passing. I would agree that, if the article is to be kept, it should be more about the mod itself and its development, but with the RS coverage we have I don't see how that could happen. silviaASH (inquire within) 04:49, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
• ::If it is redirected to Reload, there would need to be a section explaining Kotone's section of the game, which isn't even in Reload at all. This is a mod bringing P3P content to Reload, so it doesn't quite fit in P3P or Reload's article. While it could be shoehorned into one article or another, it becomes harder to say that is for the good of readers. I would also argue that MERGEREASON #3 is not applicable, because the article can be expanded. "The female protagonist isn't in Persona 3 Reload and fans didn't like that so they made a mod" heavily understates the effort involved in creating the project, implying it is something more like a simple protagonist swap and not - in the modders' words - "music, the UI, the animations, voiced battle lines, costumes", etc. To be clear, this is something Reload's developers stated would be too difficult for them to do, and fans did it purely on a volunteer basis.
• ::And no, the links aren't SIGCOV, but there's plenty noted in the article. SUSTAINED does not require the later articles to be SIGCOV, just that it's in the media's crosshairs for a sufficiently long period. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 05:28, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
• :::{{tq|If it is redirected to Reload, there would need to be a section explaining Kotone's section of the game, which isn't even in Reload at all.}}
• :::I disagree; it wouldn't require much explanation at all. We'd just say that there was a female protagonist, it was in a previous version of the game, and isn't in this version, and a mod to put it in this version is being developed. If the reader wants more details about the female protagonist in Portable, that's what links are for. Were I to put something to this effect in the article, I might write it a little like this:
• :::

  Reload was criticized by some players for omitting the female protagonist previously featured in Persona 3 Portable.{{Cite web |first=Isaiah |last=Colbert |date=2023-06-12 |title=Persona 3 Fans Upset As Remake Cuts Female Protagonist |url=https://kotaku.com/persona-3-reload-remake-femc-female-protagonist-recast-1850529591 |access-date=2024-12-16 |website=Kotaku |language=en |archive-date=2023-07-16 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20230716221609/https://kotaku.com/persona-3-reload-remake-femc-female-protagonist-recast-1850529591 |url-status=live }} Kazuhisa Wada, Reload{{'}}s producer, cited time and budgetary constraints as the reason for the omission.{{Cite web |last=Byll |first=Brett |date=2024-08-15 |title=Persona 3 Reload Producer Has Bad News For Fans |url=https://gamerant.com/persona-3-reload-no-female-protagonist-planned/ |access-date=2024-12-16 |website=Game Rant |language=en |archive-date=2024-08-15 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240815185344/https://gamerant.com/persona-3-reload-no-female-protagonist-planned/ |url-status=live }} A game mod aiming to implement the female protagonist into Reload, the Femc Reloaded Project, was developed by fans.{{Cite web |last=Cryer |first=Hirun |date=2024-02-19 |title=Persona 3 Reload finally gets Portable's beloved and missing female protagonist thanks to some very dedicated modders |url=https://www.gamesradar.com/persona-3-reload-finally-gets-portables-beloved-and-missing-female-protagonist-thanks-to-some-very-dedicated-modders/ |access-date=2024-12-16 |website=GamesRadar+ |language=en |archive-date=2024-08-11 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240811173637/https://www.gamesradar.com/persona-3-reload-finally-gets-portables-beloved-and-missing-female-protagonist-thanks-to-some-very-dedicated-modders/ |url-status=live }}

• :::And that would be about it. Maybe add a sentence noting that game journalists praised the mod, but I'd say this is about all that needs to be said. silviaASH (inquire within) 06:15, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
• ::::Simply saying "the female protagonist" is omitting a lot of information. Readers would rightly be confused: is this female protagonist a gender-swap of the male protagonist, or an entirely separate character? (She is not a gender-swap). Does the game's content change depending on the protagonist? (It does). And nothing is described of the mod besides the fact that it exists, including whether it actually implements said things and how deeply. This is not helping the reader, but removing information you deem useless, which is not a good argument either in AfD or merging, especially after it has been shown to be notable. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:14, 7 June 2025 (UTC)
• :::::I'm not saying it's totally useless information, but we also don't need to spell it all out here per WP:NOTGUIDE. And, again, those details are already covered at the Persona 3 Portable section of the main Persona 3 page, and on the Protagonist (Persona 3) page. If readers feel the need to know more, they can follow the links to those articles. Like I said, this is what links are for.
• :::::If there really needs to be a bit more clarification in this article, it's just a matter of adding a few words. "the female protagonist and additional content associated with her route", or something. It can be workshopped easily. silviaASH (inquire within) 08:48, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

:Oppose cuz, at a glance, it seems to pass GNG. Sources don't seem dinky and has been covered in the larger gaming press ☩ ^{(Babysharkboss2)} 15:36, 7 June 2025 (UTC)

{{Reflist-talk}}

• Support. I find that the argument that it couldn't very comfortably fit into Persona 3 Reload, or that Reload is not an obvious merge target, to not be strong. You can and should cover the disappointment over Kotone's absence, as well as the reason why. The only thing unique to the first paragraph is the second paragraph, which could be easily summarized to say "A fan-made mod was created to include Kotone, her music, exclusive Social Links, and the character Theodore, a replacement for Elizabeth." It was published on February 19, 2024, 17 days after the game's release, and continues to receive updates. It was received well for its speedy creation and its quality." I don't think that a mod of a game that can be adequately summed up in three sentences needs to be separate from the article of the game it's modded. The argument of demonstrating notability is also shaky for me; looking at the four sources cited, one is a Valnet source (not disqualifying but not a top-tier game source), and none of them have much to say about it. They all pretty much write the same articles with short comments on the mod's quality, hence why the article is only two paragraphs aside from the lead and the preamble. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 03:40, 8 June 2025 (UTC)