Talk:Peyton Manning#Proposal to add context and straw poll

Everything in the paragraph beginning “Manning is a Christian,” following the initial sentence should be deleted. His faith tradition is a biographical fact, but as a non-clerical, non-religious figure, his religious views are non-encyclopedic. 73.201.172.195 (talk) 03:43, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

:I’d argue it’s encyclopedic to point out that Manning is an extremist ultra far right conservative Protestant and has a long history of being connected to extremist far right political figures. 71.114.123.162 (talk) 00:06, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Why is there still no mention of Manning’s sexual assault history and his history of using and trafficking illegal drugs? I swear that this page could have been written by Manning’s publicist. Jesus. 71.114.123.162 (talk) 00:07, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

:Ctrl+f is your friend. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 02:45, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

::Why? Currently in the article there is zero information about Manning’s sexual assault crime and zero about his illegal drugs scandal. This page is a joke and has been for years. 71.114.123.162 (talk) 17:10, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

:::Did you miss the section titled "Sexual assault allegation"? Also, the PED thing is in the 2015 season section. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 20:04, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

::::First off, the word “allegation” is a weasel word and has no place in this article in reference to Manning’s sexual assault scandal. Second, this article barely talks about either of them. There used to be a whole controversies section on this article, but now it just reads like Manning’s PR representatives wrote it. Make it make sense. 71.114.123.162 (talk) 05:09, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

{{edit semi-protected|Peyton Manning|answered=yes}}

Under the section for the 2015 season, remove "The game set a record for the largest age difference between opposing Super Bowl quarterbacks at 13 years; Manning was 39 and Newton was 26" and reference 408, as this is the third largest age difference, behind Brady vs Goff in 53 and Brady vs Mahomes in 55. It should also be known that those facts are stated in reference 408. 2600:1700:FB0:4B00:C456:9926:3EBE:932E (talk) 01:25, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

:{{partly done}}: Just because the record has since been surpassed doesn't mean it didn't still set a record at the time. I added some context in a parenthetical. DrOrinScrivello (talk) 19:52, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Remove the word "of"

Manning's ability to use of audibles at the line of scrimmage on the road Madapiarist (talk) 00:05, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

:Done. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 00:18, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

{{edit semi-protected|Peyton Manning|answered=yes}}

Change that Peyton manning being the only quarterback to reach the Super Bowl with more than one franchise. Tom Brady reached the Super Bowl with 2 franchises. 2600:1700:EF70:CA10:A9D8:6911:1CB5:E0D3 (talk) 22:34, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

:"Manning is the only quarterback to have reached the Super Bowl with multiple franchises with multiple starts for each." Manning had multiple starts for both the Colts and Broncos. Brady only made one Super Bowl with the Bucs. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 22:50, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

Why so there so little mentions of Manning’s sexual assault and illegal drug trafficking scandals? This article reads like it’s written by Manning’s PR people. Why not just put the controversies section that used to be in this article back into it? 173.67.182.46 (talk) 07:47, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

:See #No mention of his sexual assault and illegal drug scandals (above). —Bagumba (talk) 07:55, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

::That seems to have ended with no resolution. It’s just extremely weird as Wikipedia isn’t supposed to be censored. Why not just put the old controversies section back in? 173.67.182.46 (talk) 18:13, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

:::No consensus results in keeping the status quo. —Bagumba (talk) 18:17, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

::::Why was the controversy section removed in the first place? Wikipedia isn’t supposed to be censored. 173.67.182.46 (talk) 18:21, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::Per the WP:ONUS policy: {{tq2|The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content}} —Bagumba (talk) 18:50, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::Yup. And I have put forth multiple proposals to reinstate the controversy section of this article which formerly existed. Wikipedia is not censored. 173.67.182.46 (talk) 18:53, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::Which you've failed to gain support for. I personally oppose a dedicated controversy section if the relevant bits can't be fit in elsewhere. Hey man im josh (talk) 20:19, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::The problem is the relevant bits aren’t found anywhere else. No mention of the multiple lawsuits against Manning by the woman he sexually assaulted due to him lying about it in his book. And there’s no mention of him but illegal drugs for his wife. Zero. 173.67.182.46 (talk) 00:30, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::::::Either you haven't searched for "lawsuit" or "drugs" on the page ("Ctrl+f is your friend" was already suggest to you), or you are trolling. —Bagumba (talk) 05:33, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::There is barely any mention of anything in the article. It does state that Manning found proves to have lied about sexually assaulting a trainer. It also makes no mention whatsoever of the HGH scandal other than saying that the NFL refused to investigate him. This article is a joke. 173.67.182.46 (talk) 07:35, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

::::::::::::I propose this:

::::::::::::====Sexual assault allegations, violations of court orders and misogynistic comments====

::::::::::::In 1996, while attending the University of Tennessee, Manning, while being examined by a female trainer, pulled down his shorts as she bent over behind him to examine his foot to determine why it was hurting,{{cite news|url=http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/1997/08/20/oth_213271.shtml#.Vje0i5RHaK1|title=Trainer's settlement involved more than Manning's mooning|agency=Associated Press|newspaper=Augusta Chronicle|date=August 20, 1997}} and she has claimed he then sat on her face and proceeded to rub his anal area and testicles on her face until she pushed him up off of her.{{cite news|first=Aric|last=Mitchell|url=http://www.inquisitr.com/1486872/peyton-manning-sex-scandal-largely-forgotten-even-with-a-witness|title=Peyton Manning Sex Scandal: Largely Forgotten, Even with a Witness|date=September 19, 2014|accessdate=November 30, 2015|work=The Inquisitr}}

::::::::::::According to a court filing by the trainer's attorney, she reported Manning's actions to the Sexual Assault Crisis Center in Knoxville within hours. Manning apologized but claimed that he did not do everything the trainer alleged and that he was just mooning teammates across the room when she happened to be behind him. Despite Manning's denial, at least one eyewitness confirmed the trainer's account. In court documents filed by her attorney, the trainer also claimed that Manning later taunted her by re-enacting the incident on two occasions, called her a "bitch" when she attempted to give him a drug test, and threw a pen across the room that he was supposed to use to sign and date the drug test sample. The trainer later settled with the university for $300,000 for its alleged failure to properly handle the actions of Manning and others in various incidents, and she agreed to resign from the school.

::::::::::::Manning then referred to the incident and described the trainer as having a "vulgar mouth" in his autobiography published in 2000, Manning: A Father, His Sons, and a Football Legacy, saying he was "crude, maybe, but harmless" in his conduct towards her. He also added that "women in the men’s locker room is one of the most misbegotten concessions to equal rights ever made" and that "[w]hen Dad [Archie Manning] played, there was still at least a tacit acknowledgment that women and men are two different sexes, with all that implies, and a certain amount of decorum had to be maintained. Meaning when it came to training rooms and shower stalls, the opposite sex was not allowed. Common sense tells you why." http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/01/peyton-s-manning-s-forgotten-sex-scandal.html As a result of the "vulgar mouth" comment, the trainer was demoted from her job as Program Director at Florida Southern College. The trainer sued for defamation, resulting in an undisclosed settlement in 2003 and a court-ordered gag on Manning and the trainer ever talking about the settlement or each other again.http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1694048

::::::::::::In denying a request for dismissal of the suit, Polk County Circuit Judge Harvey A. Kornstein stated "[e]ven if the plaintiff is a public figure, the evidence of the record contains sufficient evidence to satisfy the court that a genuine issue of material fact exists that would allow a jury to find, by clear and convincing evidence, the existence of actual malice of the part of the defendants", going on to say that "there is evidence of record, substantial enough to suggest that the defendants knew that the passages in question were false".{{cite news|first=Mel|last=Antonen|url=http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/colts/2003-11-04-manning-suit_x.htm|title=Trainer has backers in suit against Mannings|newspaper=USA Today|date=November 4, 2003}}

::::::::::::In 2005, Manning was forced to re-settle again after violating the court's gag order by further discussing the incident and claiming she had taken advantage of him in an ESPN documentary special program about him.{{cite news|first=Mike|last=Freeman|url=http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/011605/spf_17700659.shtml#.VjeyfZRHaK0|title=Manning still battling college foe|newspaper=Florida Times-Union|date=January 16, 2005}}

::::::::::::====Performance enhancing drugs allegations====

::::::::::::On December 27, 2015, Al Jazeera America released a report conducted by the Al Jazeera Investigative Unit investigating professional athletes' use of Performance-enhancing drugs (PEDs) which named Manning, among other prominent athletes, as having received illegal drugs from Charles Sly, a pharmacist who had worked at the Guyer Anti-Aging Clinic in Indianapolis during the fall of 2011. The report involved Liam Collins, a British hurdler, going undercover in an attempt to obtain banned substances from Sly and other medical professionals. The report claimed that Manning's wife, Ashley, had been shipped off label human growth hormone (HGH) by the Guyer Institute during the fall of 2011 while Manning was out with a severe neck injury, with the intention of hiding that Manning was the one actually receiving the drugs.{{cite web|url=http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/12/dark-side-secrets-sports-dopers-151227133355144.html |title=The dark side: The secret world of sports doping |publisher=Al Jazeera English |date= |accessdate=2015-12-29}}{{cite web|url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14441114/documentary-links-peyton-manning-other-pro-athletes-use-peds |title=Documentary links Peyton Manning, other pro athletes to use of PEDs |website=Espn.go.com |date=2013-05-01 |accessdate=2015-12-29}} Sly told Collins during their conversations that "[a]ll the time we would be sending Ashley Manning drugs [...] Like growth hormone, all the time, everywhere, Florida. And it would never be under Peyton's name, it would always be under her name." http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/12/29/al-jazeera-reporter-stresses-that-no-allegation-is-being-made-against-peyton-manning/

::::::::::::It is illegal to prescribe HGH off label,[http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/11/051108084527.htm]{{dead link|date=December 2015}} as the only legitimate ailments in which HGH can be prescribed to adults are for patients with childhood pituitary gland disorders which are carried over into adulthood, patients with Short bowel syndrome, and late-stage HIV patients. HGH was outlawed by the NFL as part of the collective bargaining agreement, which was ratified on August 5, 2011.{{cite web|url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/25/the-cba-in-a-nutshell/ |title=The CBA in a nutshell | ProFootballTalk |website=Profootballtalk.nbcsports.com |date=2011-07-25 |accessdate=2015-12-29}}{{cite web|url=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6834391/nfl-players-ratify-collective-bargaining-agreement-which-includes-hgh-testing-sources-say |title=NFL players ratify collective bargaining agreement, which includes HGH testing, sources say |website=Espn.go.com |date=2011-08-05 |accessdate=2015-12-29}} The Indianapolis Star reported that in 2007 federal indictment was brought against Thomas Bader and College Pharmacy of Colorado Springs which alleged Guyer received Chinese HGH that was not approved by the FDA from College Pharmacy "on or around Feb. 22, 2007." and that Bader was later found guilty in 2010 and sentenced to 40 months in prison for illegally importing human growth hormone from China and other charges related to his sale of HGH.http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_29327520/new-details-emerge-about-doctor-source-allegation-abouthttps://www.scribd.com/doc/294311244/USA-v-Bader-et-alhttp://www.indystar.com/story/news/2015/12/29/peyton-manning-nfl-denver-broncos-hgh-ped-dale-guyer-institute/78025512/

::::::::::::Manning issued a statement stating, that he is "angry, furious [...] disgusted is really how I feel, sickened by [the allegations]". He told ESPN's Lisa Salter that he had visited the Guyer Institute 35 times during 2011 and that he had received both medication and treatment from Guyer during this time.{{cite web|author= |url=http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Transcript-Peyton-Manning-interviews-with-ESPNs-Lisa-Salters/f07ef954-bada-42fc-ab64-f9f38dc9fb49 |title=Transcript: Peyton Manning interviews with ESPN's Lisa Salters |website=Denverbroncos.com |date= |accessdate=2015-12-29}} Sly recanted his story and requested that the report not be aired via a YouTube video following the release of the report.{{cite web|author=Sports |url=http://www.businessinsider.com/charlie-sly-recants-statements-about-peyton-manning-2015-12 |title=Charlie Sly recants statements about Peyton Manning |publisher=Business Insider |date= |accessdate=2015-12-29}}{{cite web|last=Cleary |first=Tom |url=http://heavy.com/sports/2015/12/charles-charlie-sly-pharmacist-gave-peyton-manning-hgh-human-growth-hormone-texas-indiana-youtube-photos-al-jazeera-documentary-howard-zimmerman-james-harrison/ |title=Charlie Sly: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know |website=Heavy.com |date= |accessdate=2015-12-29}} Sly later claimed to ESPN that Collins had taken advantage of him during a vulnerable time in his life as Sly's fiancée had allegedly died, although Sly refers to his fiancée, "Karen", several times in the present tense during his conversations with Collins and gave no indication to Collins that she had died.

::::::::::::Sly told ESPN's Chris Mortensen that he is not a pharmacist and was not at the Guyer Institute in 2011, as Al Jazeera claimed, but state licensing records indicate that someone named "Charles David Sly" was licensed as a pharmacy intern in Indiana from April 2010 to May 2013 and that his license expired May 1, 2013.{{cite web|url=http://abc7ny.com/sports/documentary-links-peyton-manning-other-pro-athletes-to-use-of-peds/1136912/ |title=Documentary links Peyton Manning, other pro athletes to use of PEDs |website=Abc7ny.com |date=2013-05-01 |accessdate=2015-12-29}} Sly later stated that "[w]hen [he] was there, [he] had never seen the Mannings ever. They were not even living there at that time," and that "[s]omeone who worked there said they had been there before. That was the extent of any knowledge I had. I feel badly. I never saw any files. This is just amazing that it reached this point."{{cite web|url=http://abc7ny.com/sports/documentary-links-peyton-manning-other-pro-athletes-to-use-of-peds/1136912 |title=Documentary links Peyton Manning, other pro athletes to use of PEDs |website=Abc7ny.com |date=2013-05-01 |accessdate=2015-12-29}}

::::::::::::An employee at the Guyer Institute named "Heather" later confirmed to Al Jazeera investigative reporter Deborah Davies who called the clinic to request an "employment verification" that Sly had worked at the clinic during the "fall of 2011" and confirmed that his start date was October 17, 2011.{{cite web|url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/al-jazeera-peyton-manning-transcript_56814cf4e4b0b958f659d99c |title=Here's A Transcript Of Al Jazeera's Call To Confirm Manning Accuser's Employment |website=Huffingtonpost.com |date=2013-02-18 |accessdate=2015-12-29}}{{cite web|author= |url=http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/2015/12/28/key-questions-peyton-manning-accusation/77979294 |title=Key questions about Peyton Manning accusation: live updates |website=Indystar.com |date= |accessdate=2015-12-29}}{{cite web|author= |url=http://www.businessinsider.com/peyton-manning-hgh-scandal-intern-why-he-lied-2015-12 |title=Charles Sly explains why he lied to an undercover reporter about Peyton Manning and HGH |publisher=Business Insider |date= |accessdate=2015-12-29}}

::::::::::::On December 28, 2015, both the NFL and MLB both initiated investigations into the allegations made by Sly.{{cite web|author=Stephanie Ramirez |url=http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/dc/2015/12/27/nat-fans-upset-over-reports-zimmerman-doping/77958502/ |title=MLB, NFL investigate reports of Zimmerman doping |website=Wusa9.com |date=2015-10-14 |accessdate=2015-12-29}}{{cite web|last=Svrluga |first=Barry |url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/12/27/nfl-mlb-will-investigate-players-named-in-al-jazeera-report/ |title=NFL, MLB will investigate players named in Al Jazeera report |publisher=The Washington Post |date= |accessdate=2015-12-29}}

::::::::::::Al Jazeera America reported on January 3, 2016, that the Al Jazeera Investigative Unit were in contact with a second source, who was "impeccably placed, knowledgable, and credible" and was a former employee at the Guyer Institute, which confirms Sly's allegation that HGH was sent to Ashley Manning.http://deadspin.com/al-jazeera-reporter-second-knowledgable-and-credible-1750778458http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_29338568/al-jazeera-reporter-says-second-source-confirmed-hgh

::::::::::::On January 26, 2016, it was reported that the USADA had joined with the MLB to investigate the allegations made by Sly, but that the NFL was refusing to cooperate with the joint MLB and USADA investigation. http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14652385/mlb-asks-us-anti-doping-agency-help-investigate-al-jazeera-claims The NFL later denied the reports, stating that the "NFL has worked with USADA & MLB from the start.". http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/26/nfl-disputes-report-of-non-cooperation-with-mlb-usada-in-manning-probe/

::::::::::::On February 5, 2016, Ari Fleischer confirmed that Ashley Manning did receive shipments from the Guyer Institute, but refused to confirm that the shipments had included HGH. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14718227/peyton-manning-legal-team-looked-al-jazeera-documentary

::::::::::::====Bullying of accusers====

::::::::::::The Daily Beast reported Mike Freeman, Bleacher Report’s NFL national lead writer, as saying when asked why Manning turns to bullying when he’s challenged by an accuser, that "[f]or every classy part of Manning, the one that sells pizzas and says, ‘Golly gee and aw shucks,’ there is a bit of a ruthless guy [...] this is not stated maliciously. It’s stated honestly. I think what he did with [the trainer] is an example of that. He does that [exposes himself] to her, which is a despicable thing, and then later in his book, takes a shot at her. That shot was calculated. It was a way of trying to diminish [the trainer] and her original accusations" http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/01/peyton-s-manning-s-forgotten-sex-scandal.html

::::::::::::On February 5, 2016, it was reported that Manning secretly hired private investigators to investigate Charles Sly and his family. Two men, wearing black overcoats and jeans, visited the parents of Sly, and according to a 911 call from [Sly's parent's] house during the visit, stated that one of the men initially said he was a law enforcement officer but didn’t have a badge. The two men later acknowledged that they weren't law enforcement officers and stated they were looking for Sly and not his parents. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/inside-peyton-mannings-secret-investigation-into-al-jazeera-documentary/2016/02/04/d0da2f04-cb05-11e5-a7b2-5a2f824b02c9_story.html After the 911 call, the police went to the Sly house, but after identifying themselves as private investigators, the parents decided to talk with the investigators, and the police left. Sly's parents informed them that their son was due to come home for the holidays the next day. Manning’s investigators spoke with Sly on December 23, 2016, though they refused to identify specifically who they were representing.http://deadspin.com/here-is-the-911-call-made-from-charles-slys-home-when-p-1757319833http://thebiglead.com/2016/02/05/peyton-manning-hired-private-investigators-to-track-down-source-before-hgh-story-went-public/

::::::::::::====Lack of media coverage on scandals====

::::::::::::Manning's performance enhancing drugs allegations published at the end of 2015 did not have a big media coverage compared, for example, with Tom Brady's issues towards Deflategate scandal earlier that year. Some media even handle the issue on an evasive way, such as a Fox News opinion talk show host claiming that the PED allegations reported by Al Jazeera were a plot to go "after American icons and US institutions," citing the allegations against Peyton Manning as the prime example, even though Al Jazeera's reporter Deborah Davies gave specific details about the reports to media outlets such CNN and NBC News.http://nomorecocktails.com/post/2015/12/28/Jesse-Watters-Is-Al-Jazeera-Going-After-American-Icons-and-US-Institutions-with-Manning-Report.aspxhttp://deadspin.com/al-jazeera-reporter-second-knowledgable-and-credible-1750778458http://deadspin.com/al-jazeera-reporter-defends-peyton-manning-hgh-report-o-1750120420 CBS Sports sportscaster and NFL on CBS #1 Play-by-play commentator Jim Nantz, who shares agent Sandy Montag with Manning, refused to acknowledge the Al Jazeera report while on the air, referring to it as a "non-story".http://deadspin.com/jim-nantz-is-a-sanctimonious-wiener-1750929687http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2016/02/i_hate_peyton_manning_why_doesn_t_everybody_else.2.html Nantz has appeared in advertisements with Manning for Papa John's Pizza, of which Manning owns every franchise in Denver metro area, as well as Sony products. In an e-mail to the Daily News, Ari Fleischer wrote, "I didn't even know Sandy represented Nantz and in all cases, I haven’t asked Sandy to do anything on this."http://www.thenation.com/article/why-they-pardon-peyton/

::::::::::::A comparison has been made by several sports writers, highlighting the lack of media coverage of Manning's wrongdoings, as compared to several prominent black athletes, including Carolina Panthers quarterback Cam Newton and Tampa Bay Buccaneers quarterback Jameis Winston, whose wrongdoings have received far more media coverage. http://thebiglead.com/2014/09/18/peyton-manning-1996-tennessee-lawsuit-trainer-bare-butt-mooning/http://fanbuzz.rare.us/story/cam-newton-has-never-done-anything-as-bad-as-what-peyton-manning-was-accused-of/ Dave Zirin for The Nation stated that "[t]he financial power of Peyton Manning means that he operates by a different, deeply corrosive set of media rules than any other player". Zirin went on to state that "Manning is a commercial leviathan not only because he has had a storied Hall of Fame career but because he is a white, All-American superstar from a prominent family in a league that is 70 percent black." http://www.thenation.com/article/why-they-pardon-peyton/

::::::::::173.67.182.46 (talk) 07:43, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

:{{outdent|9}} Is this the same as {{section link|Talk:Peyton_Manning/Archive_5#Proposals}} from 2016?—Bagumba (talk) 09:34, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

::Correct. This section should have never been removed in the first place as Wikipedia is not censored. This article has a long history of being edited by people who have a vested interest in making Manning look like a better person than he actually is. This article has Ari Fleischer written all over it. 173.67.182.46 (talk) 18:28, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

:::I think you're really overcomplicating it and creating a boogeyman that doesn't exist. You're asking to give an WP:UNDUE amount of weight to accusations and reports that are heavily based on rumours. Additionally, we don't typically have controversy sections for biographies. That's why this stuff hasn't been added to its own section. If relevant information can be fit in at spots, and it's succinct and not based on rumours or unreliable sources, then great. However I don't support a dedicated "controversies" section at this time. Hey man im josh (talk) 18:33, 20 February 2025 (UTC)

::::How is it undue? Wikipedia isn’t supposed to be censored. Which part of the proposed edits are “rumors”? Which unreliable sources are used? It’s a bit silly to not just not mention any of Manning many public controversies and scandals. 173.67.182.46 (talk) 00:51, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

I was tempted to roll back the latest edit from the IP, whom I just blocked for trolling on Rich McCormick and on their own talk page, but I'll just leave this note here. Hey man im josh, I appreciate your patience with this user, but it's wasted, I'm afraid. Bagumba, you went way back; I have not looked for a connection. If there is one, well, then we need to be extra careful. Drmies (talk) 00:58, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

:@Drmies: It's been a persistent theme from a string of IPs on this talk page that negative aspect is missing from the page, when it is already mentioned, just not in one single "controversy" section nor with the intricate detail that the IPs desire. It's a continuous case of WP:NOTGETTINGIT. The WP:ONUS is on them to establish consensus. It seems either to be a campaign to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS, or just trolling good-faith editors on a contentious topic. —Bagumba (talk) 01:43, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

:As they have stated that they {{tqq|have put forth multiple proposals to reinstate the controversy section}}, I'll assume that the prior IP on this topic was them too, and that one had been blocked by {{u|Favonian}} for {{tqq|Disruptive editing; incessant use of talk pages for soap-boxing in spite of several warnings }}[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/block&page=User%3A71.114.123.162] —Bagumba (talk) 01:52, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

{{ref-talk}}

• Among the 43 references attached, there's quite an assortment of colors that appear on the source highlighter tool. Only a dozen are deemed reliable in green (2, 6, 7, 8, 12, 25, 28, 30, 32, 39, 40, 43). Out of the unhiglighted ones, Indy Star and Denver Post are presumably reliable as major city papers; they're just probably not widespread enough to be the subject of perennial dispute and discussion, and/or everyone just assumes they're reliable. Deadspin and The Big Lead are also unhighlighted and appear multiple times, and I do not know what their reliability is. To have a reasonable chance of succeeding, at a minimum the proposed content would need to be pared down to include only (or mostly) the reliable sources. If WP:WEIGHT or other more nuanced policy points are involved and deadlock the discussion, it may be helpful to refer the issue to WP:BLPN. Left guide (talk) 11:19, 21 February 2025 (UTC)